16 Years at Google Taught Me How to Scale From 1 to 150 People | Javier Tordable (2/4)

Intro - 00:00:06: Welcome to The Biotech Startups Podcast by Excedr. Join us as we speak with first-time founders, serial entrepreneurs, and experienced investors about the challenges and triumphs of running a biotech startup from pre-seed to IPO with your host, Jon Chee.

In our last episode, Javier shared growing up in Spain with a mathematician father, teaching himself to code, and spotting a Microsoft internship poster two days before the deadline—a moment of pure chance that permanently redirected his career. If you missed it, check out part one.

In part two, Javier talks about joining Google in 2008 and becoming a tech lead six months in, responsible for a product used by millions with no reliability engineering support. He then unpacks his moves through Google Ads, where his Athena platform became a top company OKR, and into supply chain, where he studied at MIT at night while building the infrastructure that helps Google stand up gigawatt-scale data centers faster than any competitor.

Javier Tordable - 00:01:25: So I enjoyed it. I don't think it was a culture shock. The world culture, of course, is very different than Spain, but it was very nice, very enjoyable. Microsoft, I think, back then—I mean, I don't know, many years have passed—but back then, it was a really, really nice place for getting started in your career. Lots of support, you know? Lots of people would begin on the same day, right, that they would take care of, you know, making sure that they were learning, like, lots of social activities, ways to connect with people. So at least back then, it definitely felt very welcoming.

I think the US as a country was also a little bit different in the early 2000s than it is today. But for me, it was actually very welcoming. I definitely enjoyed it to the point where, like, I really wanted to come back. I ended up going back to Spain to finish and so on and so forth. But then as soon as I had the chance, you know, I came back. And I've been to Seattle ever since. Now it's many years later, right, again, of course, you know, to have the chance to move to many other places. But I think at that time, Seattle was a really nice place. You know, definitely high quality of life, you know, still, you know, much more affordable than the Bay Area, for example. Right? It doesn't really have the same density of people starting new things, for example. But, you know, but, of course, you know, many large companies have been starting here too. And in some ways, I think there's a very high concentration of intellectual capital here.

Sure, I got the chance to come back, and a year later, I was basically working for Microsoft. I was in Windows Live Search, as it was called initially. Right? This is before they rebranded to Bing. And it was great. I mean, just like any other job, right, you know, some things were better than others, but it was a positive experience. You know, definitely learned a lot. Spent 18 months, something like that, over there before switching to Google, and I still remember it, but I firmly still participate in the Microsoft alumni meetings.

Jon Chee - 00:03:11: Absolutely. And, like, I've never worked at Microsoft, and I'm just always curious about, like, different work cultures and, like, engineering philosophies and, like, org design. How was Microsoft, or when you were there, how were they organized, and what was, like—I know in pharma, they used to do, like, the matrix organizations. How was Microsoft organized, and, like, how did the engineering and everything operate?

Javier Tordable - 00:03:35: Yeah. I would say Microsoft was a fairly engineering-driven company organized around product areas back then. I think they did problems to do. Right? So you would have your VP of Windows or whatever. Right? And the engineering team, the test team, the product managers, and all those folks would report to them. And then you would have separate business functions, your sales, your HR, and all that kind of stuff.

So within the engineering organization, which is very large, you would have your traditional structure, right, like your directors and your engineering managers and your individual engineers. I would say, kind of, sort of, would have lots of hierarchy levels, right, because people would stay for many, many years right now. Of course, everybody wants to get promoted every once in a while. So Microsoft would have, like, dozens of levels and, like, people reporting to other people with, like, three reports, and then it was, like, all the way, you know, seven hierarchies after your VP or whatever.

So it was very hierarchical in that way, but at the same time, it's fairly open. Right? Like, you could reach out to people, ask questions, and have discussions, and so on. I think I was probably very young to appreciate a lot of that, you know, if I was, you know, at my age, and, of course, I now know a lot more about organizational structure. Right? But at the time, you know, I just assumed that's just how big companies run. It was a little bit different. Right? Like, when I joined Google, Google was a very different kind of place.

Jon Chee - 00:04:49: Because it was, like, relatively early days for Google at that time when you joined.

Javier Tordable - 00:04:54: Well, it was post-IPO. I joined Google in 2008, and I think it was May or June 2008. We were still very small, probably 20, 20-something thousand people in the entire company. Definitely much smaller in terms of revenue than it is today, or at Microsoft for that matter. I do remember by the time I left, just Google Cloud, which was a team that I was in, hired a lot more people than the entire company had when I joined. I was probably in the 97th, 98th percentile of people at Google, but I spent 16 years there. Right? So I spent a lot of that.

I would say the first thing that was different from Microsoft was that Google felt a lot smaller. Not just smaller in the sense of a smaller company, but it was more flat. It was easier to get things done. There was less bureaucracy. It was quite amazing that in spite of being a 20,000-person company, Google was still a place where you could do things really fast. It still felt like the good old days. Right? You can just come up with an idea and then, you know, start hacking around. And, like, you know, a couple months later, you just ship something, and then the lawyers will call you. And I was like, "You can't do that." Right? And it was very much like that. Right? It still felt a little bit like a startup even though it was a massive company with all sorts of processes. And, I mean, I kind of, you know, went through a lot of different CEOs and different ways of doing things throughout my time there. Interesting.

Jon Chee - 00:06:09: How did the opportunity come about to join Google?

Javier Tordable - 00:06:11: I think it was pretty random. I remember getting a call from a recruiter. I actually interviewed—I think it was a couple of times. So I did a couple of intro calls over the course of a year that didn't go anywhere. And then a recruiter reached out again and said, "Hey, you know, would you like to do an interview loop?" Right? And I was like, "Sure. I'll do that." So I interviewed in Kirkland, which is close to Redmond. Right? And I think at that time, I was still a very good interviewer. I remember going through a bunch of different programming questions, you know, solved those. Like, one of them, the interviewer, I think, ran out of time, and it was like, "Well, let's work on this, you know, random, you know, problem." Right? And I was like, "Oh, yeah. That's like the Turing halting machine problem. You know? Let me show you how it reduces to that." I know, Glitchley, we were, like, you know, sitting there for, like, the last five minutes, and he was like, "Oh, I don't have any more questions for you. You know? Would you like to ask me something?"

And I think I was very, very lucky. Right? Like, you know, especially back then, Google was a hard place to get into. Right? Because you would have all these, you know, crazy interview loops of super hard questions. But I think at that time, I was probably a better interviewer than a better engineer. So a lot of the algorithmic problems were not as hard. I had a chance to join, and then I was moving from Bing, so I thought a natural place to sit was within the kind of search org. And I ended up joining a group that was called Webmaster Tools. And I have a lot of fond memories from that and a lot of the people that I worked with.

And, yeah, basically, I spent maybe six months. And then there was a little bit of a spin-off group, and I ended up being, like, the most senior back-end person in that group. For some random, you know, chance of events, I ended up being the tech lead, which was also, I think, fairly new for me. It was a step up in terms of responsibilities and things that I was doing, but I was able to do that. And I would say that's probably my biggest formative experience as an engineer. So I was new at Google, you know, six months in the company. Suddenly, I'm a tech lead of a product that has millions of users worldwide. You know? It needs to be maintained 24/7. We didn't have, what we call, SRE support. Right? Like, you know, support from reliability engineers. So, like, everything essentially, you know, fell on my shoulders. Right? You know? So a shitty bug happens, somebody has to fix it. I'm that somebody. Right?

Jon Chee - 00:08:14: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Javier Tordable - 00:08:15: But it was really good. You had kind of this combination of being able to move fast to make changes quickly, but at the same time, responsibility and empowerment. And I remember working with really good people back then that I've kept in touch with for many years. Asaf was my manager back in that group, and I really enjoyed it. I spent four years there, and I ended up switching teams basically because I was moving to the Seattle side instead of the Kirkland side. Just wanted to try, you know, something a little bit different, but that was a great experience.

Jon Chee - 00:08:41: That's awesome. And was Webmaster Tools, like, the predecessor to Google Search Console?

Javier Tordable - 00:08:46: Yeah. Yeah. So this was all before being rebranded. Yeah. Search Console.

Jon Chee - 00:08:50: Got it. Is analytics folded into that as well?

Javier Tordable - 00:08:53: No. No. I don't think so. I think they're still separate teams. I built a lot of the search construction. I built the first Fetch as Googlebot feature, you know, a lot of people have used. You know, there's this thing. I sometimes have people... but you do a Google. Most of my stuff outside of Webmaster Tools was internal. Right? I'll mention that later. But I did one feature on google.com, which is when you do a site colon search, something that webmasters used to do all the time to see how many pages were indexed. So you'll see at the top a little box that says, you know, "Try Google Search Console." So I made that, but a lot of other features, you know, within the alerting of Webmaster Tools, you know, and it's been a long time. The crawl stats, you know, really show, you know, how many pages on their side were indexed on different tiers of Google index and so on.

Jon Chee - 00:09:35: When I was starting Excedr back, like, 2011 or so, it was just me. And so, basically, we do equipment leasing. So, you know, our competitors are better-capitalized, larger organizations that have full commercial sales teams, like, you know, banks—insert bank. Don't have that. I don't have any of those resources or people. So I had to figure out a way to basically, how do I do sales at scale? Like, of course, I would do traditional sales. Like, I would do cold calling, but that's only... now you can do cold calling in, like, a crazy amount of, like—all the technological tools to do that, you can probably do a lot more than what I was doing back then. But, like, I would just have to use literally my cell phone and, like, cold call people. And I was like, "Okay, this is not a scalable way to kind of get the brand going."

So I spent a lot of time in Google Search Console and basically focused. And one of my long-time colleagues who is still at the company to this day—I've been working with them since 2011—we did tons of SEO, like, like, a crazy amount of SEO. This was back when, like, keyword stuffing was, like, you could still stuff, like—obviously, you can't do that now, but, like, keyword stuffing and, like... and then learned how to do, like, all the, like, Google Ads, like, performance marketing stuff. So, like, all these tools that you're, like, talking about have, like, a near and dear place to me as an end user. I was like, "This is fantastic. Like, I can actually..." you know, got to create, like, all the backlink, like, connecting, like, this... like, the interlinking of everything and making sure it's crawling, like, properly.

And so, yeah, I just spent a lot of time in the early days. Like, I probably spent, like, years, like, just, like, huddled over my computer, and, like, some of the pages on our website that were published from way back then are still driving insane traffic that we just optimized over years and years and years. And I still log into Google Search Console and, like, check on it every so often. It was like, "Is this still working? Still working."

Javier Tordable - 00:11:34: I'm glad that it was useful for you. Yeah.

Jon Chee - 00:11:36: It was useful. It was useful. And things are changing now because, like, obviously, people are searching and finding their information differently. So it's almost like I'm relearning, like, a new age of SEO, but basically with, like, agentic stuff. So that's really fascinating. I digress. So you now you're like, "Okay, I'm going to go into a different group, the one in Seattle." What was that group doing?

Javier Tordable - 00:11:55: Yeah. So I switched to, essentially, a group that was part of Ads. And by that time, I was a staff engineer. So, you know, I could take my pick, right, as to what things, you know, I could work on. So for the senior, as I mentioned, you know, I went through a pretty significant learning experience within those four years. You know, definitely felt a lot more confident, right, like, able to build all sorts of different things. So I switched to Ads, and then I was working on something that essentially was tooling to make Google Ads' Salesforce more efficient.

The big thing that I did back then was a tool called Athena that, honestly, even, like, many years later, you know, I would tell people and they were like, "Oh, you built that. That was great." This was essentially a tool that would compile all the data for a customer that then, uh, Salesforce could use to create a pitch and then pitch to their customers. Right? So it's a little bit of a reporting tool, but the nice thing about it is that it was fully automated. So it just crawled all sorts of different internal websites and so on and then built something that was essentially ready to share with the customer.

And I do remember back then, one of the big company goals was... Google was, of course, growing like crazy. Right? But in order to sell more, you typically have to hire more salespeople. Right? So, you know, if you want to go from, like, you know, 15 billion a year to a 100 billion a year, like, you know, and you have a thousand salespeople, well, you want to hire 7,000 salespeople. How do you train them and so on and so forth? An alternative way to think about it is, well, you know, if I can take my salesperson and then make them 2x, 3x more efficient. Right? Because now they are just talking with customers and pitching to those customers instead of spending, you know, four hours creating a report and half an hour talking to a customer and another, you know, three hours doing follow-ups. Right? If you can make them 3x more efficient because you save, well, those hours, right, then suddenly you can drastically increase your revenue without having to bring in more people.

So at one point, the platform that we were working on was actually a top company OKR. Right? One of the key company OKRs was "make sales folks more efficient." Right? And that was back when Google was working its way towards becoming a $100 billion company. Now it's like $100 billion a quarter. Yeah. But then back then, it was 100 billion a year. Right? And we were still—I mean, it's crazy, right, that a company could do, you know, 15 billion or 20 billion and keep growing 20%, 25% year over year for years. Right? And I think it was very, very successful. Really enjoyed that. I spent two and a half years doing that, and then I had my disagreements with some people, and I decided to switch teams again and ended up joining a brand new group that was doing supply chain.

And that was, I think, you know, maybe the first time when I realized, you know, I can just jump into a completely different field. Right? So we were actually hiring a new VP for supply chain, and it was Patrick Rockley, you know, came from Amazon. And I remember meeting him one day in the office in Seattle, and I was like, "Well, you know, I'm a staff engineer. You know, I've been doing all those different things. I'm pretty good at this and that." And he was essentially creating a new organization from scratch, and I was like, "Hey, you know, I'd love to join that." And I ended up switching and became the Google TL for supply chain for another couple of years.

And the interesting thing is that I was learning about the topic, about the space of supply chain at the same time that I was working there. So I enrolled in a whole bunch of different classes. Back then, MIT had this thing that was called a MicroMasters. It's basically, like, half of the course load of a master's degree, but it was all online—well, I mean, except for, like, a few in-person events. So I went through all that stuff. I basically was studying supply chain from MIT at night and then working, building supply chain systems, you know, at Google during the day. And a lot of it was basically—I mean, back then, it was hard to imagine, you know, how prevalent it would be. Right? But we were basically trying to build enough cloud infrastructure. This was a time where Google Cloud was kind of starting to ramp up. Right? Like, Amazon had a six-year, seven-year advantage. You know? Everybody was using AWS, and then Google said, "Oh, oops. We should do something here." Right?

So one of the things that was very interesting is that back then, it would take, you know, x amount of time to build a data center, to source all the machines, to set up your building, your power, cooling, etcetera. Right? And a lot of those things come down to supply chain problems. Right? Like, you know, how do you source your materials or your processes? How do you prepare your build orders? What kind of flexibility do you give the different purchasers? I've done like the product areas that want to own that compute capacity, right, in that data center. A lot of it is planning and software problems. Right? So we built over those two years, two and a half years, a lot of infrastructure, a lot of APIs, a lot of, you know, new ways of doing things that years later, you know, is part of the reasons why I like to work and build gigawatts of capacity in data centers, you know, faster and more efficiently than a lot of other folks.

Jon Chee - 00:16:27: That's awesome. And just to go back a little bit, you said something that stood out to me. You joined Google and you quickly became a tech lead. What does the tech lead role, like, entail? Like, what are those, like, key responsibilities of a tech lead? And you said you started managing people too.

Javier Tordable - 00:16:42: No, I wasn't managing people back then. Yeah. No. So when I was in supply chain, I was managing a small team. I had technical supervision, so to speak, of a larger team in the sense that I would make technical decisions that would affect a much larger org. Right? So deciding, you know, what stack to use, how we would define an API, you know, how we break things down into different systems, and so on and so forth. And I think as an individual tech lead, you know, you typically have a lot more ownership of the technical infrastructure of an individual product. Right? So you kind of decide what APIs you offer to your, you know, customers, how you implement things, you know, what kind of specific technology you use, and so on and so forth. Right? I think a lot of it comes down to essentially having, you know, the mode of technical acumen, seniority, right, to be able to make those decisions efficaciously.

Jon Chee - 00:17:27: Awesome. And then you mentioned that when you got into supply chain, then you had a small team. And, also, it sounds like a very different space. Like, you're talking about the physical, like, you're like the physical now. Like, were you traveling all over the world, like, finding, like, vendors? Or, like, talk a little bit about that.

Javier Tordable - 00:17:43: I wasn't doing as much of that. I was definitely traveling quite a bit. I mean, visited data centers and so on and so forth. But I was, for the most part, spending time, you know, across all the different teams. It was a fairly distributed org. So I spent a little bit of time in the Bay Area, of course, and then New York and so on and so forth. But I would say, you know, for me, the biggest learning experience was figuring out how to effectively take technical decisions for a much larger org than I was doing before. Right? I think at some point, you know, it seemed like maybe a 100, a 150 people. Right? So setting up process, you know, and so on and so forth. Right? Like, when you have a small team, you can probably wing a lot of things. You can make ad hoc decisions. You know, you can just crunch your way through things. Right? But when you have such a large org, you need to set up more formal processes so things don't just kind of get out of control very quickly. Right?

Jon Chee - 00:18:28: Yep. Yep. And I've never operated at that scale. Like, is it just like a matter of, like, you just have to set up, like, a bunch of, like, checks and balances so things don't get, like, immediately just, like, derailed? Or, like, describe the processes, like, the way you were thinking about it and, like, designing it so something doesn't, like, explode.

Javier Tordable - 00:18:45: You know, at a higher level, right, is the difference between operating on things as they come versus having an explicit process that you set up. Right? And it's much the same as when you start a company. Right? Like, if you're a single person, right, and you're consulting or whatever, you can probably wing it. Right? Email comes in or you do a little bit of prepping here and there. Right? You can be more or less organized, but you can probably figure things out because everything is inside of your head. And you can hold everything inside of your head. Right? Like, maybe one day you're working on marketing, the next day you're working on a technical project.

But when you have a really large org, there is just no way that you can hold in your head everything that everybody's working on at the same time. Right? So you have to set up some formal process in which, you know, maybe some things happen on certain days and, you know, where people have to set up certain quality gates or somebody else has to sign off and so on and so forth. You have to be a lot more explicit about how things work. Right? You can't just go and say, "Well, tell me what you're working on, and I'll tell you whether that's right or wrong." Right? Like, you need to set up ways that people can review and check other things. And, you know, in some ways, you have to get things done through other people as well. Right? Like, whether it's a direct managerial responsibility, right, or that it's something that, you know, somebody knows how you think, right, because you've been working with them for a while. So I would say the biggest difference, right, is you just need to have explicit processes to get things running.

Jon Chee - 00:19:58: And, like, when you're doing this, is this all, like—I'm imagining just, like, creating a ton of documentation.

Javier Tordable - 00:20:03: Yes. Yeah.

Jon Chee - 00:20:04: Tons of documentation. And by the way, like, it's kind of like in this world that we're living in now, like, there's, like, incredible value to documenting your workflows and processes now, especially with all these agents. Like—and I've had to do that not because the organization is big, but because we're fully remote, we've had to document because, like, we don't have this. Like, I can't tap someone—like, some people love in-office. That's cool. Some people love remote. That's cool. Some people like hybrid, whatever. Everyone has their own cup of tea.

Javier Tordable - 00:20:34: Well, I love going to the office and then getting free lunch every day. Right? That's great.

Jon Chee - 00:20:38: But yeah. That's awesome. I go to the office, and it's maybe more of just a me thing, but I just go there, I just socialize, and I don't get any work done. I'm just like, "Good to see you. Good to see you." Just hanging out with people and just, like, drinking coffee all day. I'm like, I got nothing done. And so, like, there's a time and place, at least for me, and maybe that's just a symptom of being, like, a fully remote company from the very beginning.

Javier Tordable - 00:20:59: I mean, in a big company, you kinda have to. Right? So this is very interesting because many times you would see people just socializing or water cooler chats or, like, just chit-chatting. But that's part of what enables you to get things done out of the company. Right? If you are going to discuss something with some other team, right, that you're depending on, right, they may or may not listen to you. Right? People make their own decisions for their own purposes. Right? And so having a relationship with them or a bit of a closer personal relationship, you know, always helps get things done. Right? And that's kind of one of the things that makes people more effective.

Now, of course, you know, I don't use a lot of those soft skills anymore because now I run a company. Right? People, you know, report to me. Right? So I just go and tell them, you know, what to do. Right? I don't have to be chit-chatting for hours in the hopes of convincing them, you know, to operate in a different way. Right? So I think leading with authority is definitely a whole set of skill sets. But in a big company, quite often, you just can't do that. Right? Actually, you have to lead without explicit authority. Right? So I don't think it's just wasting time. Right? But it's a different type of work.

Jon Chee - 00:21:57: Oh, yeah. For sure. For sure. Again, more of a just, like, a Jon thing because I'm just like, "Oh, it's really good to see you, man. Like, I'm just trying to hang out. Like, I haven't seen you in a long time." But, like, what being fully or primarily remote has kind of forced us into is, like, documentation of these processes, because, like, they can't quickly just, like, get up to speed with me. Like, I might be in a meeting or whatever. It's like I'm doing something else, I'm not right next to them.

And all of that documentation over the years that we've, like, accumulated—all of it is kind of like just, like, a brain trust, like, that we've just, like, documented. And then now we're just, like, piping in, like, agents, and it's, like, incredible. It's like, oh, it's up to speed super, super quick. And when oftentimes, like, smaller companies may not have, like, as great—again, like you said, you can keep it in your head. Like, you didn't need to document it. You just... it's like, "Oh, this is how you do it. Go do it." So it's like an interesting thing and that now you get, like, leverage on that. I can imagine, especially, something with, like, supply chain as important as, like, critically important, and especially now when they're, like, embarking on a crazy, like, CapEx journey.

Javier Tordable - 00:23:02: Yeah. No. I mean, I would agree. Right? So that's an interesting aspect. Right? Like, some organizations, I think, are better than others at documenting how they work. But if you are forced to run—i mean, back in the day, you would say, if you're forced to run a distributed org. Now it's like, if you choose to run a distributed org, right, of course, you kinda have to do that, right, because you can't just, you know, turn around, right, and talk with somebody. I would say, in our case at Polling, we're also a fully distributed organization, so we're pretty good at that.

But the interesting thing is once you have agents, and if you model those agents as employees that perform certain functions and you kind of, you know, put them in place in the sense of entities that have responsibility for certain, you know, job tasks, documenting processes becomes even more important. Right? Because not only are they remote—right, they certainly are not sitting next to you—but they also may have a very different culture, so to speak. Right? Like, they're not human. They don't necessarily have, you know, the same kind of human intuition. Right? So being able to use agents effectively kind of requires documenting exactly what the expectations are from those agents. Right? So, so to speak, it's kind of like working with people from a completely different country with a completely different, you know, background and education than you have. Right? But at the same time, they have a lot of advantages. Right? They are sometimes faster than a human force, you know, for other things. Right? So I think it's interesting, right, like, how we're reinventing a lot of organizational processes, right, in order to add AI employees to our companies.

Jon Chee - 00:24:27: Absolutely. And I think about just, like, my time in the lab too where, like, these, like, pockets of knowledge and processes, like, it's, like, in your lab notebook. Like, it's not on a computer. In a notebook, you put it in, like, in your desk and you pull it back out from every... like, and I'm, like, oh my god. If this was, like, on your computer in some sort of, like, form that could be legible, you would just get, like, so much leverage on this, but it's not.

Like, I was talking to one of our legal counsel, and her father was a professor at Stanford and passed away recently. And she was going through, like, the basement or the attic, and he had, like, all of these papers, like, academic papers that were, like, groundbreaking, just in a box in the house. Hadn't seen the light of day. Like, it's kind of like this interesting time now, it's just like where it's almost like everything on the Internet has been commoditized, but it's like that dusty box that's, like, has that knowledge or process or, like, that is now becoming incredibly valuable for whatever reason. It's, like, just not out on the Internet.

And I was, like, thinking about other organizations. That's just one example of what it can be that you find value in, like, documentation and then, like, writing things down. But I was like, I think it was, like, Ray Dalio's firm where, like, that's a specific culture of firm. It's a brutal culture I've heard.

Javier Tordable - 00:25:46: Introspective. Right?

Jon Chee - 00:25:48: Yeah. Yeah. Everything is recorded and years and years and years and years and years of it. And you can imagine that, like, that data could be, like, a crazy... like, we talk about the brain trust of an organization. We just have years of, like, decision-making data that for every investment decision you've ever made, and you just, like, use that to just, like, take you to propel you.

Anyways, it's really fascinating because, like, now it almost feels like a treasure hunt to, like, try and, like, unearth. It's kind of like what's that other investment firm, like, Rentec, Renaissance Technologies. They went into, like, a library and were just, like, getting lumber data in books, like, dusty books in, like, the Library of Congress or something, and just, like, cleaned it and just, like, put it in the model and just, like, go. It's a fascinating time because, like, I'm hoping for science, we can just, like, get all that and, like, make it, like, legible, and we can start doing things with it and get more, like, I guess, better hygiene around all of this and documenting things.

Outro - 00:26:45: That's all for this episode of The Biotech Startups Podcast featuring Javier Tordable. Join us next time for part three where Javier joins the office of the CTO and spends years as his technical director working with Nintendo, Ubisoft, and the biggest names in gaming before his father's death from cancer drives him to pivot entirely into life sciences, self-studying Harvard Medical School's HMX courses and working across the full spectrum of the healthcare ecosystem.

If you enjoy the show, subscribe, leave a review, or share it with a friend. Thanks for listening, and see you next time. The Biotech Startups Podcast is produced by Excedr.

Don't want to miss an episode? Search for The Biotech Startups Podcast wherever you get your podcasts, and click subscribe. Excedr provides research labs with equipment leases on founder-friendly terms to support paths to exceptional outcomes. To learn more, visit our website, www.excedr.com.

On behalf of the team here at Excedr, thanks for listening. The Biotech Startups Podcast provides general insights into the life science sector through the experiences of its guests. The use of information on this podcast or materials linked from the podcast is at the user's own risk. The views expressed by the participants are their own and are not the views of Excedr or sponsors. No reference to any product, service, or company in the podcast is an endorsement by Excedr or its guests.