Biosimilars, FDA Risk-Taking & Billion-Dollar Deals | Judy Chou (Part 3/4)

Intro - 00:00:06: Welcome to the Biotech Startups Podcast by Excedr. Join us as we speak with first-time founders, serial entrepreneurs, and experienced investors about the challenges and triumphs of running a biotech startup from pre-seed to IPO with your host, Jon Chee. In our last episode, Dr. Chou shared how she pioneered high-throughput screening at Wyeth that revolutionized biomanufacturing and how Genentech recruited her to build a product-driven department in Oceanside. If you missed it, check out Part 2. In Part 3, Dr. Chou talks about the biosimilar startup where she became employee number one, walked into an empty facility alone, and convinced the FDA to skip all preclinical animal studies—a meeting where 32 FDA agents watched her answer every question by herself. She shares how a medical school friend's death from metastatic lung cancer opened her eyes to why creating biosimilars was about more than science; it was about making therapies available to patients who couldn't access them. She also discusses joining Bayer Pharmaceuticals to lead over 2,000 employees across six sites, building trust one drop at a time in a 153-year-old organization, and navigating the painful reality of being the first Asian woman in leadership.

Judy Chou - 00:01:42: So it sounds like, uh, I'm gonna imagine kind of, like, during the sale to Gilead, this is kind of like a transitionary period for your department. Is that when you made the transition to Tanvex?

Jon Chee - 00:01:53: Yes. During that period. It cuts a long story short. It's like that if we don't elaborate too much. But Genentech definitely spent whatever the energy to retain me. So the Tanvex thing came along if I jump to that, uh, question right away. It was the founder just had this vision about wanting to create something in biologics, and I didn't really quite know what exactly can be fast. So I was employee number one in Tanvex. And yeah. Seriously. Uh, and...

Judy Chou - 00:02:27: Oh, crap. Okay. Glad you said that.

Jon Chee - 00:02:29: And, well, this is a billionaire. Uh, he has this idea about he wants to play in biologics and his his hobby or something like that. And then he came to talk to me about this. Again, if my life in Genentech is so good, is that something about selling? No. The sale to Gilead thing happened after I left. So probably as a consequence rather than other reason. Oh, okay. Let's not elaborate too much. Right? Because that a little bit about Genentech, I feel like if the leader left, they have an even harder time to justify. Let's just cut a long story short.

Judy Chou - 00:02:53: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're like, we want continuity.

Jon Chee - 00:02:56: Even though, believe me, many people don't trust that's a story. They say, you must know. Yeah.

Judy Chou - 00:03:02: Yeah. Yeah.

Jon Chee - 00:03:03: I honestly I think by now I can say after I was so firm about leaving, and Genentech detailed me before I left and say this whole deal. But they were hoping I will hop to the South San Francisco ship. Not really. Okay. I'll probably reveal the biggest secret because Gilead even also years later is still chasing after me. But about the Tanvex thing, wasn't like so much I planned it out. So the whole idea about being employee number one, I always told myself I should come up with a made-up entrepreneur story. Like, I want to be an entrepreneur, so that's why...

Judy Chou - 00:03:37: You can get your...

Jon Chee - 00:03:38: I really don't have it, honestly. I was, like, uh, just thinking about, well, this seems like I came to the ceiling where I am and what am I going to do, and this was like this. Actually, go back to that question I asked myself. Right? Can I put my science, innovation, and helping patients to have a further breakthrough? And that was the time then I kind of present this, uh, potential, and then I say, well, okay. Let's give it a shot to see what I can create something out of scratch. Because it's founded by a billionaire, so the funding initially wasn't an issue at all. So it's just a 50,000 square feet space, uh, he already bought. And then day one, I went to the job, and I realized it's me plus that 50,000 square space, empty space. And I was, like, walking around a little bit and...

Judy Chou - 00:04:26: Home alone again?

Jon Chee - 00:04:27: Yeah. Home alone. Okay. This time, it's not like I already yay. I can...

Judy Chou - 00:04:31: do this...

Jon Chee - 00:04:31: and that. I don't even know what I'm gonna do. I called the founders to say, hey. Uh, I realized, uh, so, seriously, you already have the space, and then you want me to create something for you. And what do you want me to do? And he was like, "Why are you calling me? That's your job." I was like, uh, can you narrow it down a little bit? Like, why are you asking me? I don't even know biology. I told you biologics. Whatever. Biologics.

Judy Chou - 00:05:02: That's hilarious. I know about this biologics thing. Yeah. I assumed you have it figured out. Like...

Jon Chee - 00:05:08: Exactly. Yeah. So it's not very dumb of me because I like I say, I always tell myself, next time people interview, just come up with some entrepreneur story. Like, I think you know what to do, and it wasn't. So then I kind of figured out because he has some success in the generic medicine. So I feel like then maybe then we partner on maybe the biosimilar. I have to point out, biosimilar wasn't a thing. Okay. This is 2010. So it wasn't a thing. So there's no regulatory path. There's nothing. But I feel like, well, this probably makes sense. And that's the CEO also if biosimilar can create a difference. Being such an innovator and also bragging about my creativity, why do I even bother with biosimilars? I have to tell you, let's also have something about this side story because as I mentioned, I went to medical school. So one of my classmates turns out to be a very, very successful dermatologist in Taiwan. And this was just right before this opportunity to do this entrepreneurship. Right? So then not to get into too much detail, but she realized that she had stage four lung cancer unexpectedly. Just found out already. And the way it's already in the metastatic phase and widespread. But she has a really good knowledge about what drugs she needs to have. And so not getting into the details, so she kinda discussed with me about being at Genentech, can I get some of the drug for her and things like that? And I looked into that. I never actually realized about the supply and also the distribution. It's a thing. Right? Because I figured I told Judy, as soon as they figure out the technology, launch a drug, patient will benefit. But I never thought about this commercial line about these things. So without going into detail... and I have my limit to not be able to help her. And then in the whole dialogue of things that definitely, I think her conversation—because we were pretty close friends at medical school time, and then later on, she passed away less than two months. Uh, well, maybe less than two months. Even though maybe even I can get a drug for her, it's too late. But it got me thinking. Helping patients is not just about the upfront creativity, not just the development phase, but also making the drug available. That's why starting the biosimilar thing became a thing for me about, hey. What if it's not just one company on this potential for the company? I don't put down Roche and Genentech at that time why my friend didn't get a drug. But this is how it works. Right? When you have one owning company, their commercial strategy, their marketing strategy, and many things, you have to respect that. But I think that's not what I signed myself up for.

Judy Chou - 00:08:02: Yeah.

Jon Chee - 00:08:02: So I started to have an eye-opening experience about this. That's my one. This, uh, founder has this whole idea. Let's say, okay. Then let's explore this possibility. And, also, very fast, I realized doing biosimilars, you need to be even more creative at least in my case because I know so much about all those drugs, how it's made, and the inside scoop. And I know so much how I cannot do the same thing. So the obvious signs I know, and I have to put a circle around. I have to be super extra creative to create the same thing without using it. Right?

Judy Chou - 00:08:39: Yeah.

Jon Chee - 00:08:39: Yeah. Also like you know how to jump, but you can no longer jump the same way as you jump. And to create the same height, you have to create a path. So I have to say that was the years when I was at Tanvex. Hard for people to understand how innovative that is, but this is more about addressing how you produce, how you create something similar. But I have this proud track record because this was before all those regulations had been published. So when we I got two products into Phase 3...

Judy Chou - 00:09:10: Wow.

Jon Chee - 00:09:11: During those four years. So very fast. And then when we submit our IND, the first product to IND and then have the conversation with the agency. We all know right now, uh, FDA really promoting the idea, do less animal studies and things like that. And this is when biosimilars hadn't even been approved. So we're planning to do, you know, the tox and all those, uh, animal studies before going into Phase 1. So this is the Pre-IND meeting. Now I share with you how the founder's mindset is. So, of course, he just sent me, and then I come out into this FDA meeting. I was like, oh, okay. I'll just go.

Judy Chou - 00:09:49: You and a consultant.

Jon Chee - 00:09:51: No. Me plus the consultant. Yeah. Yeah. And then the consultant only just keeping notes. Uh, and then because we were not involved with this consultant. Okay. But we walk into the room. 32 FDA agents sitting in the room. I was like, holy cow. Like, wow. And they were like, uh, first their project manager will say, okay. So, uh, Dr. Chou, I'd like to make sure your company is represented by you and, you know, the the doctor so-and-so, yes. So you're speaking regulatory? Yes. And you're speaking like, you know, like a development, clinical. Is it yeah. I feel like almost as funny as the people ask you, like, do you do windows and do you do doors and those, like, things, right, when you're trying to hire some handyman into your house. Yeah. I was like...

Judy Chou - 00:10:41: That is me.

Jon Chee - 00:10:41: Yeah. And I have to answer every question straight-faced. Yes. So I talked through the sixty minutes with they have 32 people, four, five departments to talk to me about this. Later on, um, someone retired from FDA was in the meeting and did have the friendly chat with me and became a friend. And she told me about we were so impressed about this little Tanvex nobody heard of and sending just you. And then you talk through the whole thing. We were, like, really eye-opening. And then they also say, well, it was a lot of things. I answered the approach and things like that convinced them. So we were, like I say, it's all dumb to share this experience because I was still humbly thinking about we should do all those to follow every single biologic. So at the end, they look at each other, then they say, "We're going to tell you you can skip all the preclinical studies because your calculation of your protein looks so good." In some sense, there's probably no doubt because I know the standard. And I told you, I couldn't copy anything I used to do. But what you cannot learn... what you already learned about what's good. You don't learn those secrets. You don't keep those, but you have kinda set the bar. So they were so impressed about the calculation data looking so good, so they allowed us to fast forward. I was as silly as when they say there's no animal study, and I will share with you because that's it is really funny. I said, "I was like, when you say animal, do you mean rodent and non-human primates?" They say, "Yes." I say, "Even rodents?" And they say, "Yes." I was like, couldn't believe. I can understand if you don't want me to do the non-human primate, but... and I was like, uh, thinking about, wow. I got to nail this. Right? Because this is such a... I never heard about anybody can do that. So it's like, so you mean mouse, rat, rabbit?

Judy Chou - 00:12:30: Yeah. Yeah. You're listing out all of them.

Jon Chee - 00:12:33: Yeah. I think all those agents probably like, okay. Do you think we are dumb? No. No. Yeah. I mean, rodents down.

Judy Chou - 00:12:40: We said animals. Those are animals.

Jon Chee - 00:12:43: And they even talk rodents. That's like, uh, okay. I was really was in doubt about they just somehow I mistook this. But, anyway, it was a great experience. I think this really set also the great foundation about I'm not shy about discussing with the agency about in a collaborative way. So I don't mean, like, oh, I overcome them, but more about I think, like, this friend later on retired and she was in the meeting and then she talked about this whole spirit about, hey. Don't be humble, Judy. We learn so much from you about, hey. Things can be done this way, that way, and you show the results convincing. And I do think this is important because we have this, uh, I always praise. It's so nice we are in a highly regulated industry. I don't consider that's a challenge. I think in a highly regulated, so you don't like, counting on your market research and all that. Not purely counting on that. Right? Because that's a wild card. The difference about biotech is then the question, the goal is so obvious. You can pull anybody out of the street. You know that. But it's the solution. It's not obvious. Very different from, you know, like, if you and I are creating the next generation...

Judy Chou - 00:14:00: See, I don't know if people will like this. Maybe. Yeah.

Jon Chee - 00:14:03: Yeah. But I think the biotech then is a collaboration with the record... not like other industries, not heavily regulated, but still not to this degree. Right? Almost I think this is if we fast forward about the investor world, one of the difficulties. Right? Because it cannot just count on you, John. You'll be able to create this product. There'd be how's the agencies feel about this and that. So I think since that experience, I do feel this whole collaborative environment is very, very important. And to me, I'm not intimidated. I see okay. If I've been there, imagine sixty minutes with 32 agents that grill me with all the questions. Right? I'm the one and only person having the answer from CMC to everything. And I wish I can brag about this, but about that. Really, it's about that experience about, hey. At the end, they give me credit. They honor this. So later on, I really do make an amount of it. People still tell me, hey. Were you there? Somebody actually mentioned about that meeting. Wow. Like, someone... it's kind of also probably gave my founder that credit, right, because he's so naive.

Judy Chou - 00:15:09: Yeah. I love that. And it's interesting. My wife interfaces with regulatory bodies a lot too. And when we work from home, I'm, like, walking by the office, and I just see, like, on the screen, it's, like, 40 government agents.

Jon Chee - 00:15:23: Yeah.

Judy Chou - 00:15:23: And just her just, like... I wouldn't say sparring, but it's, like, a similar approach. It's, like, you should make it more collaborative than kind of just a sparring match. So it sounds like you really had, like, a crash course. Like, it's just a crash course on, like, regulatory and how to, like, handle it. And a part of what I'm seeing here is, like, maximal impact, and you talked about the kind of, like, supply chain. And this is almost, like, maximizing... like the biosimilars, like, maximizing impact and the reach. And that is an important factor too because, like, again, kind of, like, if you're just, like, doing an artisan one kind of, like...

Jon Chee - 00:15:57: That's right.

Judy Chou - 00:15:58: That's not... I mean, yes. Helpful. But, like, how do we get this to more patients is maximizing the impact, which I think is, like, important here. And we talked about, like, you're learning every kind of part of the drug discovery journey. It's, like, every single part. And then even further downstream, like, all the way through the regulation, getting into people, like, getting it to patients, and, like, how do we optimize every single part of it to, like, compress it down? And that, I think, is a commendable effort. And, also, it sounds like it was hard as hell.

Jon Chee - 00:16:34: So one one thing to build your point further, because this is also I was this, uh, first employee and the VP of R&D of the company, and then definitely along the way, this VP of Manufacturing got hired. And then somehow, all of them got fired. And then as you kinda laugh about this founder, so it's like when the third one got fired, then he turned to me, like, "You're going to do manufacturing." So I used to do this, you know, like I said, GMP clinical scale, but not to the manufacturing to launch product. Right? So I was like, oh, you misunderstand me. So I am the VP of the Research for R&D. I was not manufacturing because that thinking, right, this vertical thinking is still there. I feel like then he's as naive as like, "Anything non-commercial is R&D." I was like, okay. Good point. And then we actually had to build those in manufacturing suites and have to learn that. And I used to just collaborate. And so I profoundly have the impact to my career as you probably know. Since then, I started running manufacturing organizations. And, like, to your credit still, I will say, you highlight, and I really trying to get to understand the manufacturing. So build three manufacturing suites and then to the, you know, different, like, micro, uh, and the cell culture and also the drug product that if it's seasonal, like, force me, I wouldn't I would say, like, you've got to be kidding me. Like, I don't do that. And but then also regulatory. Right? Like, send me to FDA meeting. I said, seriously? Okay. And I'm stepping like, oh, darn it. Like, why do I even think this is okay? And their name is under a letter, but I don't think it is going to be so big, seriously. So I don't want to sound like I was like, oh, I can do it. I was just like, okay. Then just do it.

Judy Chou - 00:18:27: I'd be terrified. I mean, mortified. Terrified. Yeah. Just like...

Jon Chee - 00:18:31: I'm good at the end. It was a good ending. Otherwise, it's a trauma. Right? Who has been putting on to this torture about 32 agents, uh, to grill you with the question. So is building the manufacturing. I do think that's probably the beauty as you and I are chatting here about join the startup. Right? I couldn't imagine if I continue my path in Genentech. Well, maybe, at some point, as I progress my career, like, I later on being there, but wouldn't be so, like, groundbreaking, understand every single ISO code and to build a suite to understand every single thing. I do think that carry with me about later on. I can have that right language. As you also point out appreciation to my manufacturing folks, and they wouldn't feel like, uh, she's just coming somehow out of the space and just helicopter into managing us. So that probably if you don't get into yourself into... and that's why I say I need to make up an entrepreneur story, but Yeah. Now you know. It's Yeah. Yeah. Just like putting that situation and have to just master the whole situation out of it. Yeah.

Judy Chou - 00:19:38: Very cool. And you did the startup journey now and really got it humming as employee one. When did you know that you're up for your next adventure?

Jon Chee - 00:19:48: So I think what's obvious about when I got things into the Phase 3, to answer your question first, and I'll add one more comment. So I still have that itch I have to admit about to get to this, you know, like, a new product, a new target, and that biology side of innovation. Right? So I feel like I need to be back to that environment. That's, uh, to answer your question. But, definitely, there's another thing, and I hope this will be helpful for anybody determining their career path. Because then, Tanvex went on IPO. And it was very obvious about if I just stay a little bit more and I probably can have even more of my stock options turn into the profit I can get out of being the employee number one. So when I have that itch about this, along the way, um, Medivation, they have people come to talk to me. Medivation is on the other extreme. Like, then super extra innovative and then taking a lot of, uh, creative ways, tons of smart people, and they have already the now they become Xtandi. So licensing from UCLA, from that Phase 1 of preclinical, fast forward to already Phase 3 trying to launch, Xtandi, and there's a whole group of people who are super smart. So then they somehow I don't know how it's kinda spot on me. Probably, they say because they want somebody to run the tech ops with a very accelerated mindset. Rather than, like, "Sorry, CMC need to do it down this way and that way." So so they approached me, and recruiters came to me. So the piece I really wanted to hopefully benefit your audience is, uh, then along about, hey. I may I may make a lot of money out of this and versus doing something where my heart is taking me. Right? It's a passion for years. I it wasn't a tough decision. I just decided to move on. Uh, I'd say yeah. Not like I don't care about money, but I move on to do that. But I want to share a positive story because, um, little did I know about this move on actually benefiting me from the, really, the capital side as well because I was out. So then I cash all my stock options. Right? And even though it's portion of it, not the complete. Right? Because if I stay, we'll have more. But after IPO, the regulatory puts a stringent on those leaders who cannot sell your stock for substantial amount of time, like a year. The stock went really high, and I don't want to tell you the number, like, super high right after IPO. I have no limit. And so, like, I don't want to say I'm just so smart, figure this out. I didn't know that.

Judy Chou - 00:22:28: The timing.

Jon Chee - 00:22:29: The timing is everything. Right? So I really do think I can tell you example after example, because this is probably the golden example about, definitely, I always give people the advice about really follow your passion rather than follow the money because the money later on will come. But if you got yourselves follow the money, it just it just doesn't come back to that. I'm saying this not just at the end you have a good life, but I'm telling you, if you want to make money, that's the way you make money.

Judy Chou - 00:22:57: Yep. Yep.

Jon Chee - 00:22:58: Don't just looking at the dollar amount now. And so I was, I guess, coincidentally made myself into the range about I never thought about I will make, right, and then free doing what I really want to continue building my career. And I do think it make a difference, uh, for many people because I don't want to downplay money. So I'm openly talking about this all the time. Since then, the Tanvex IPO, I don't worry about the next salary and things like that because I can just super extra focus on this passion even more because I know that's enough. Now I can just set even more focus, and every single decision I made is really following that path. So Medivation came to recruit me with really the mindset just do the innovation. And that's weird. I mean, just to not to further drag on your question, but more about, hey. I see they are very, very innovative company, and people are just really smart when I talk to them. I feel this is going to make a difference. And, also, I'm going to be on this executive team, and this was my first US public company executive team role. And I feel like, oh, I can learn a lot out of it. Indeed, I do think that was very productive years.

Judy Chou - 00:24:14: Very cool. And I'm assuming Medivation is how it brought you to the Bay Area as well, or were you still in Southern California?

Jon Chee - 00:24:22: No. So well, I should probably say this. So in my Genentech time, as I mentioned, 50% of my time, you just spend in the Bay Area.

Judy Chou - 00:24:28: Got it. So Okay.

Jon Chee - 00:24:29: Yeah. So I always been but it's true more or less, um, since Medivation, I do not need to go back to Southern California that much. Yeah. That's true.

Judy Chou - 00:24:40: Very cool. And so talk about the Medivation experience. Yeah. I mean, at this point, you've seen a lot. Like, you know Yeah. I'm gonna imagine your tool belt is now filled. Like, how did you bring that over to Medivation?

Jon Chee - 00:24:51: Yeah. So Medivation have a a little bit very unique role, though, still because there's no tech organization. This is probably happened to a lot of startups. Right? Focus on the clinical readout, worry about CMC later. And so has outsourced every single thing, except there are two members. They are doing a little bit like the clinical supplies coordination. So this is two members, and then I have to build the organization up because we need to go through conversation. So to be able to do conversation is a hugest thing, so I think for anybody goes through that. So you need to have the organization. So I have to build this whole tech up. And then being a big boss in speaking the public domain. Right? So that's something very different. And then at the same time, this is uniquely because, uh, most of my peers, the leaders, are all having very strong clinical development experience. So I'm working with them, like, side by side. Right? So this is further strengthen my experience in the clinical development side. Even though early in my career, other than Tanvex, I need to manage in that. I wasn't being this whole discipline about... so there are probably about more than a 120 MDs in the company when the company only has about 160 people. Yeah. So that's how Medivation was built. I think it's one of the most great clinical development teams, super smart and trying to cut to the point and benefit the patient. And so, really, it was a very good almost like a by default, it's a cross functional. So then to your point about, like, build a skill set, however, I do not have the team, so I have to build a team also quickly. So this is quite a bit of experience, and then Medivation decide to build a lab on the Mission Bay. So that's, uh, I think it's still true. Uh, so probably the last piece about San Francisco will ever have labs is probably in the Mission Bay area. And so we have, uh, that space and that build a space up being the site head for the also first time running because that's become Medivation's, um, Medivation's headquarters in Downtown San Francisco. Later on, you can see that shadow about my current company, why I think that works. And it's, uh, at the time, was named as the most successful virtual company, quote unquote, because basically, you don't have labs. You don't have the manufacturing. But we need to kind of starting to build a little bit. So we build a lab, uh, later on in Mission Bay and later on become many, many company out there, but let's just... it was very successful company. They acquired the place. And because when Pfizer acquire us, they really want to sell. Not to make other Pfizer people jealous because it was a really nice lab. Anyhow, so I think I appreciate you say I have a lot of toolset, but I think I'm actually building a lot of toolset. I feel like looking back, I learned a lot of things that I did not know how to do, like, you know, building. Even though I build a suite in time, but this is building a site. I mean, with everything, like, a cafeteria.

Judy Chou - 00:27:50: Yeah. Yeah.

Jon Chee - 00:27:51: Auditorium and things like that and taking care of the employees' life and things like that. So that is new. And, also, I'm managing about 50 different CDMO and CRO. And I don't know probably because the startup nature, we have all the CDMO, CRO in almost every single continent except North Pole and South Pole.

Judy Chou - 00:28:14: Oh my god.

Jon Chee - 00:28:15: So the whole travel is like crazy.

Judy Chou - 00:28:18: Yeah. So this sounded much more kind of a much leaner operation, like, way, way leaner and, like, utilizing a lot of partners, you know, the human CROs, CDMOs instead.

Jon Chee - 00:28:30: So the tool I no longer can totally use. Right? It's not your hands on. It's not your people.

Judy Chou - 00:28:35: But when you're managing your CRO and CDMO, that's still the tool. Right?

Jon Chee - 00:28:39: Exactly. That that's true. That's true. But it's a little bit like a relationship become a thing. Right? Very, very important. So building that relationship effectively. That's a keyword. Right? You don't want to just get cozy, but also they would do what you really want them to do, have the same mindset, getting this... it's hard. But, definitely, I think that's a very different setting. Medivation did give my CEO, uh, David Hung, that credit. He did say, here, this is a open checkbook. Buy a site. You want to build whatever because we know we are going to be successful on launching Xtandi and many other drugs maybe in the future. And now conservative, we did a lot of, uh, analysis with different consultants and then considered we kind of postpone that a little bit, but we do look into building the site in Europe already and many things that I haven't done before. And at the end, we decide to continue that lean operation. Maybe that's good or bad because later on, really get down to many big pharma's eyes, seeing that's easier to take over. So that's Interesting. Good or bad. Yeah.

Judy Chou - 00:29:44: Yeah.

Jon Chee - 00:29:44: The footprint project is real. And I will, maybe, to you and maybe to certain people, Medivation is not something for me, but but during Medivation's, uh, I would say the golden time, uh, was really a big thing because Medivation not only showing is the most successful virtual we can call lean company, but also it was highly sought for our people. Like, well, is this going to be the next Gilead? Because there's a potential about having the successful first product and second product to come and the infrastructure is going to build it up. We were really aiming towards that if we are not the second Genentech, we want to have being the second Gilead or something like that. So the mindset was big, and ambition was big, and the mindset was very firm about certain discipline. That's something I do think I did have that freedom to draw that, to say what I want to do, and with a lot of delegation because the tech ops side is uh, totally open. It's new. The clin ops organization and research and everything is well established. So, definitely, that's different.

Judy Chou - 00:30:53: And you mentioned the large pharma we're starting to eye. Were you there during the, like I'm gonna imagine, like, there through that acquisition process and everything like that?

Jon Chee - 00:31:04: Yeah. If you have any free time, it's really like a tabloid kind of like because then 2016, it really even it was it 2016 is a huge drama. It was first, and I hope they don't hate me when I say this, but put a word out there. Right? First, they want to acquire Medivation, and then we were not quite agree with that. And then they decide to do hostile takeover. So, basically, I just put the words out there asking all the shareholders sell this stock to them. So then we talk about this on the executive team. We decide to do is then we'll just put our company for sale because we're not quite sure that's the best deal. Let's just put this way. Cut a long story short. There's a lot of things behind it. I'm not quite sure I can share public domain. But Medivation still today, this is what many bankers told me. It's a record keeping about there's no one single company have five bidders at the same time still bidding.

Judy Chou - 00:32:03: Perfect.

Jon Chee - 00:32:04: We heard about a lot of story. Right? People Yeah. Nowadays, you say, oh, when I acquire this company's interest, somehow, at at the end, the bidder, like, it compete about who's going to win. It's going to be one or two or at most three. And the active bidder to the degree, probably and again, like I said, I got a lot of reputable bankers told me nobody has that. Like, you guys draw that attention to the degree. We were 9 billion worth market cap the day when we say we're going to put our company for sale. In three months. So five bidders going to that. We sold the company to Pfizer, 14.3 billion. So that's pretty good.

Judy Chou - 00:32:45: Yeah. Pretty decent. Yeah. Sounds stressful too, though.

Jon Chee - 00:32:49: It's very stressful. The due diligent work was not light. Everybody did very nice job of due diligence. So people like me and many other functional leaders, we were pretty much just camping and get that deal done. But I give the credit about the deal negotiation side to my CEO and CFO. Uh, cannot take any credit because they had done a very nice job. And then, definitely, you can see how much because we did not just have Xtandi already launched, but we also on the tail end to launch, uh, today's, uh, Talzenna. Basically, it's a PARP polymerase [inhibitor]. So we have that in Phase 3 and have a good plan already laid out. That's a very successful path already. Look at for Pfizer. We immediately got a two pipeline, one commercial, one ready for commercial. So I was there for the acquisition and later on also become Pfizer leadership team?

Judy Chou - 00:33:48: Holy crap. Like, what a just like a kind of a feather in the cap. I you know, this sounds like a stressful kind of a tenuous conversation, but it sounds like Pfizer is, like, definitely, based on, like, that acquisition, sounds like a successful one. And with the acquisition for continuity, you ended up kind of, like, in a leadership role at Pfizer. And then is that when, like, the Bayer kind of came into the picture around this time?

Jon Chee - 00:34:12: You're right. So Pfizer's the the first thing they do, like, many companies do is fire all the C-suite. Right? So all the executive team. And I am the only one good of that. They return. And people told me I mean, this is really good. I won't go into detail, but I really think the problem, and I don't think Pfizer will kill me to say this, because that was the same year, 2016. So they acquire more than just Medivation. The other three, pretty well established company as well. And then most of the company will come along with a lot of CDMO CRO. And then Pfizer was totally shocked about how we can do things with 50 different CDMO CRO across the whole world. Pfizer's model has never been like that even up to today. If anything is, then really internalized. And then acquire another three companies that come along also have other CDMO CRO. Then almost like a "You do so well. So we're going to retain you. You just help us managing as a whole thing."

Judy Chou - 00:35:12: So now it's like a 150 CDMOs of the serum.

Jon Chee - 00:35:16: That. Yeah. And then I usually, I tell people, I can brag about my talent, but really is Pfizer have indigestion problem. Yep. Sounds like they really want to still internalize. Yeah. They just in between don't know what to do. Right? This is not something permanently Pfizer will want to do this way. So in a sense, I think that's probably explained quite a bit of things. So I know truly, I think couple of things I do wanna highlight because Talzenna at that time was in Phase 3, almost ready to write NDA. I have a team working on that. And also this molecule, I work directly with the CEO of Medivation, David Hung, to get acquired. So I am one of the key leaders of that project. I want to see that get to the finishing line. This is probably doesn't surprise you up to this point. Right? To me, it's so important to introduce the innovative drug for patient because I know that will make a difference. It's not the same old, same old. It got to be you address something. It did not exist. So I don't want to see that got lost. And so when they talk me into, like, then with your presence, then, you know, your team wouldn't everybody want to grab the door, just leave, make a huge difference. So I think that makes sense. Another thing is that, also, I really care about my people. Many of them, this is going to be the first NDA. And I have this luck during my first job, get the BLA done, and that carry a lot of glory for my whole career. I want them to have that that feather on their heads. Right? So, honestly, at that time, any company come to approach me and other role, and I would say some of them still very good. Now I'm thinking about, yeah, that's really a great position. But I feel like for that two reason, one is care about the patient, one is care about my people. Right? So my employee, I want to stay for them. And I wasn't so crazy about, honestly, to address the indigestion problem, but more about, let's get this product finished. So between me and Pfizer, we later on have a good agreement, I will say, to a certain point when I know everything's on track, and then I I will move on. And so that has nothing negative about Pfizer, but just about... and I have to say my experience with Pfizer is very good. That's official with Pfizer rather than Wyeth. When I left, it's still Wyeth and later on got become Pfizer. Many colleagues, very, very collaborative, and you can imagine being from Medivation and a huge advisor. Right? So my transition of, uh, later on, by the time I leave, I have six different VPs. I need six different functionals. I have to... that's that's how it works. Right? Because my responsibility needs to distribute to six different people, and I don't see any one of them I'll say, oh, what a nightmare working with them. And I I do think also the other thing maybe to everybody is some encouragement. I do think my path from East Coast make a difference. I hate to divide our country this way, but I do think the East Coast mindset and West Coast mindset is quite different.

Judy Chou - 00:38:28: Very.

Jon Chee - 00:38:28: And I see Pfizer struggle because Medivation became Pfizer's oncology today. Right? And I I do think I play some role. So we can talk about technology, innovation, and there's still the piece about this culture integration. And I think I started to kinda feel their pain about when I just moved to West Coast. Not so much pain, but, like, shocking about things. And I can see West Coast people see East Coast. I was on West Coast for long enough. Right? Like, oh, how are you guys doing this? So I do think that was my role at that time to help that transition.

Judy Chou - 00:39:05: Bridge the gap?

Jon Chee - 00:39:06: Yeah. This probably explained quite well about because people ask me, why do you want to leave Pfizer to join Bayer? I feel my job is done. And then unless I want to progress my career in Pfizer, getting into a little bit of this vertical head, which you know by then, I already have this luxury doing the horizontal so many times, and I call that luxury. So I I know I have many, many friends and then still fall back to that. Right? And but I don't think it's one way or the other wrong. But I feel like I always want this big picture thing. Right? You can see the whole big picture, really. Now I can afford to Pfizer, maybe front running one of the function for them, but it's not what I have been. And I should stay for substantial of a lot of time to help this, like you say, bridge through, but not, like, forever. So that's probably, hopefully, explain about then why to your question.

Judy Chou - 00:39:58: Well, that's very commendable. It's very commendable to like, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna see this through. I'm gonna make good on the promise, and I'm gonna do right by my team. So I got that's a commendable thing to do. But, eventually, like, all good things come to an end too, and that's also understandable. And I'm gonna imagine, like, I mean, the Bay Area opportunity must have been, like, here's, like, a another adventure that's a big one.

Jon Chee - 00:40:22: A huge one, I think.

Judy Chou - 00:40:24: Yeah. Yeah. Maybe that was an understatement. A huge one. Talk about the really big one, the really the big, huge adventure.

Jon Chee - 00:40:31: Yeah. I actually just came back from one of this investor conference, and then one of the CEO talked to me about something about at Bayer because he knows someone used to be a leader. And I shared a little bit story about, like, you highlight a couple of keywords about the diversity and things like that. And then the person first response was like, oh, yeah. It's so meaningful because you're a woman. And I say, no. It's really very profound to everybody. And allow me to say this upfront. I do think all of us are facing the life always will be environment, not everybody accept you. Right? So and I do think I was the point at the Bayer even that step of hiring me for such a big role, I give some credit about you know, at the end of day, it was not a job I applied, as I say. So they approached me. That is visionary. Alright? And that was visionary to the degree they even hired me. So I I always tell my employees this when I was running out, I say, people say, oh, you're so inspirational. I say, well, give your super, um, manager or the top leader some credit. They are inspiring too because they dare to hire me. This is the organization when I joined, one hundred fifty three years, have been running all by German and dominant 90% men and then have to break that for something they care about for biotech, the new business. Right? The specialty business, put it on the hand about a woman and a Asian woman, and totally out of the norm, and that is something. And, of course, I think to maybe they would push that to see how you die or something. Yeah. Maybe. But at least they gave me this opportunity. Right?

Judy Chou - 00:42:20: Yeah.

Jon Chee - 00:42:20: I would say definitely I say huge because I I was probably a little bit naive, I would say. Sorry to kinda say almost everything. I'm a little bit naive, but that's probably good.

Judy Chou - 00:42:29: I think you need a little bit of it to do anything like this you know? I think Jensen Huang talked about it. He he talked about it. He is just like, if I knew what I knew today, I just wouldn't have started the journey.

Jon Chee - 00:42:44: You know too much.

Judy Chou - 00:42:45: Yeah.

Jon Chee - 00:42:45: They would tell me I will need to build this new organization. They're gonna consolidate, putting all the biologic because they would totally silo organization. Still today, I don't mean that in an active way as I say. I mean, big organization need to have a different way to structure. But Bayer has a footprint about Germany, Switzerland, Italy, and, you know, many, many everywhere in Europe, so as in Asia, in US. For biotech, has been very focusing Germany, Switzerland, and US for good reason. Right? Because those are three place. Really biotech is more. And then I need to manage in three countries already and then six different sites and thousands of employees. This is a employee population in US is the biggest, uh, Bayer employee population in US.

Judy Chou - 00:43:37: Just one personal note. I grew up in Berkeley. So I would always, like, ride my bike or skateboard, like, by the Bayer campus.

Jon Chee - 00:43:46: Campus?

Judy Chou - 00:43:47: Yes. By the campus.

Jon Chee - 00:43:48: So familiar. You, then you are one of the real person, even know Bayer's there. Right?

Judy Chou - 00:43:54: I know. It's most people don't know. It's just like I used to get breakfast at 500 Grayson. Like, that's across the street from the Bayer campus still there. And I'm just like, oh, crap. Like, this is a massive Bayer campus. It's very low key. Very low key.

Jon Chee - 00:44:10: Yeah. If I may, I would say I make a donation to the Berkeley, one of the foundation during my Bayer day. So when I went there, um, to give that donation to the receiving people, one of the person similar background like you, then he actually, like, shake my hands, like like, nonstop. And then he say, Dr. Chou, you don't understand. I passed that campus so many time. I always feel like one day, I want to meet the person around such a huge campus. I didn't anticipate all this.

Judy Chou - 00:44:40: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Jon Chee - 00:44:41: It was like that huge. Right? Because Yeah. But that's just one of my campus. So that and I have another three in Germany and one in Switzerland and one later I build in Boston. So that's you can imagine for Bayer to do that. It's huge. And then maybe a little bit about they also consider to have somebody of a different mindset. But I also say, I'm not quite sure. It was completely, like, endorse you up and down, left and right about you're going to be successful because there's a lot of, uh, groundbreaking and break that stereotype and being the little voice out of that. In US, it's already still we know this is not good. Right? Because the female CEO is still just in the 10%. And we say, oh, it's growing the past three years, so that becomes 13%. So that means probably not in your and my lifetime will ever see even 50%, right, which is supposed to be the norm. So that's very sad. And not to mention in Bayer. So later on, right before I left in the top 20 executive, I'm the only female. So this is very, very hard, but I'll share with you also from the fun point of view. My first this, um, welcome town hall and thousands of people and one this is definitely in Berkeley campus. I'll share with you a question. You'll say, yeah. I'm sorry. People from Berkeley will ask you questions.

Judy Chou - 00:46:06: Yeah.

Jon Chee - 00:46:06: So other campus, they're not to access this. So somebody at the end, I say, is there any more question? And then this is a town hall meeting. No no longer I'm introducing myself. And the person just raised their head like, "Well, Dr. Chou, I really hate to say this. Right? Because then you are one, not men. Two, not German. Three, not white. And I hate to say this, of course, you are not also even tall, and you fill every single category. How did you even make to this position? Help us understand that we have some hope about we can get somewhere." I love I love couldn't kinda streamline. I don't feel intimidated. I feel like that's funny, and I I think I'm super surprised. Yeah. I said, well, I'd like that. If you fill any category, guess what? Fill all of them. Right? Rather than like, oh, you got a job just because you are a little bit taller and because you are white. But anyhow, that's how why I say it's huge, because you really need to feel confident about yourself, right, and then say different way of things. And tough thing is not so much just you get yourself out there, but it's more about persuade people to trust you. So I think the big thing I highlight about not just the diversity, inclusion, but really the building trust. I gradually very quickly, I would say, realize why the trust is not there. This is probably very helpful for all of us, right, when we are in the environment to feel like you are the minority. This is always for anybody who have that experience. And it's how to build that trust. Right? And in a sense, not being looked down. You don't wanna build a trust by just oh, because you are the yes person and you always say yes. But at the same time, you need to earn a credit. They know you're transparent. They're kind of starting to feel you're just one of them, and that is hard. And I don't have any secret. Um, there's this this saying about trust like, collecting the the raindrop from a bucket. Right? It's one drip at a time and can break it just one single for everything. It's just you just can never let that happen, that one single tip and the the whole bucket's gone. But you still need to build one drop at a time to get to that. So I think to me, it was that and to the point about then my employee and also outside partner, particularly in US, would say, like, it seems like you have their ears. You have be able to build your way. If you still go back to Berkeley, you look at all those new building recently got rise. Those are all my time got proof and bringing a lot of job for Berkeley. I see Berkeley, for example, it is still one of this e-hub they should build. But for years before I joined, it was not. You probably roll your bike through, you know, is it one building down at a time, and it's just become, you know, that the Colgate Building is just ugly about all those things. They're just trying to, like, move out, and it just inherited by the prior owner. But then now starting new building after each other. I think this is what takes a lot about you have to share that vision and show results too. Let's not look down on that because this is not just about the vision and the persuasiveness. It's more about you show the result. I feel I learn the credit less about just being mingling or, like, they got to know me, but more about putting onto a lot of tough test and overcome those difficulties. And they say, well, since she'd be able to do that, let's give her some credit. I think one thing I don't know how close you know on that side. So definitely, it's a in the past, has a little bit negative history about getting some warning letter and things like that. And so it's a hot potato sort of on my head. And then I told you my manufacturing experience, but not like running this exactly or commercial, and I have this side and I have in Germany side. And I proud to say, the first inspection I ran through, we got almost zero observation. That's where they say, okay. She know how to do her job. And that's where this trust I do think I don't want to sound very attractive to say, oh, you just have to do this, do this, and that. I think you have to show the result and bit by bit about and also being very transparent about saying something negative that you're willing to share, right, rather than say, oh, no. They look at me. They will be thinking about this uh, minority woman couldn't do anything, so let me make everything good. I did not do that. I'm being very transparent about, hey. This have the issue, and then this is what we try to do. And I'm 100% sure they have a doubt about what I say we can do. It's not they don't believe that will work. Um, but then at the end, what's the result to earn that? That was, um, quite a bit of story. And to brave that, finally say, well, let's just listen to him. I really want to probably share with you because the second building just got raised if you went back to Berkeley. Even you drive through the highway, you see that as a shining building for research. And I have most happy about recently even some of my former employee to to send me that in that launch ceremony. He said, you know where in our heart was thinking about Judy's vision come to real? That bring a smile to my face about yes. At the end, it was they finished the whole footprint. I left before we build up the whole campus. Uh, it's still not yet done, but I feel very proud about that profound difference and to shake this whole traditional company and make a difference for the business too because that create a lot of pipeline for Bayer today.

Judy Chou - 00:51:50: Very cool. And I think talk about, like, a large organization and many people in departments that you are responsible for. It's a like, a the kind of exactly what you said, it's a big trust building exercise while still trying to bring kind of a fresh perspective at the same time. So it almost seems like the balancing act.

Jon Chee - 00:52:09: Yeah. It's very hard. I don't want to make it sound easy. Yeah.

Judy Chou - 00:52:12: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're, like, balancing. It's a delicate balance. Because, like, if you do too much, you might lose trust. You do too little, you get everyone's trust, but you're not making any change.

Jon Chee - 00:52:23: Yeah. And the trust, uh, to build further on your point, right, the trust is not just to above you and then your peer, but also below you too. For me, I remember the first set of one on one, and most of them SVP and some VP, and I have this dialogue. This is part of South City. This is almost because I've been working in US company so long. Right? So it's like, let's talk about your career development. And then I can tell you three out of five. They just listen to me like, yeah. Yeah. And then again, I say, what do you think about this, uh, and how can I help your career? "I don't know what you're talking about, Dr. Chou. My career is over because you are here. Like, I look at, like, you are younger than I am. I have my whole life dream about your job. You're going to be on this job before my retirement, like, after my retirement. And I that's it. I don't know why. I you even care about..." I was like, okay. Very nice. Thank you for that openness.

Judy Chou - 00:53:23: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very transparent. Getting in your way.

Jon Chee - 00:53:27: Yeah. So then you have to build that trust, other people, about your best interest still in them to give them the responsibility, the visibility, which they may not used to have because that hierarchy organization will be the boss get a credit. But to your point, also, there's a balance act. Right? It cannot be like, oh, Dr. Chou being so successful because all those people are so good, and she's just, uh, you know, the nice decoration. But you have to kind of earn your place at the same time to prove you can do something, make a difference. So it's a mixed style. This is very similar to many European society and also in some sense, the Asian society. So you cannot be brutal. That doesn't work. And then at the same time, you cannot be too humble because they will take advantage of it. So I do think I learned health a lot out of this whole big role. And so at the end, right before I left, the plan is then I got promoted. It's just in the matter about six to eight months, I would take on the 15,000 people organization to run a small molecule as well. Yeah. So that was not easy. And full credit to Bayer also, I mean, they got it. They feel this is a way to go, and and still, the CEO today, Stefan [Oelrich], I he we run into each other often. I I give him a look. He's the one still like, hey. I'm just one phone call away.

Judy Chou - 00:54:53: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm still here. Still here. And, I mean, it sounds like a pretty sweet gig. As I, like, compare this against your other experiences, it sounded very different. But what you embarked on next is probably even more different. Like, you went from, like, potentially 15,000 people to a very different organization. Like, what was the calculus there?

Jon Chee - 00:55:20: Yeah. I know. Nowadays, we heard a lot about pharma executive doing this. So please do give me the credit. That's nowadays. In 2020, that sound like she's crazy. She lost her mind. Because really was nobody does that. So that's why, uh, if you're in the Bay Area, you know, a lot of journalists just still, I guess, for two, three years, still trying to write article, though. Now become a little bit known. A lot of people left big role in pharma to be the CEO of the company. I I think in a sense, in my mind, this is a unique podcast, I have to say, because you went through the whole course of my life. Right? So I have to say, if you just, uh, take us back to before I joined Bayer and just just stay fair even like Pfizer or maybe just say Medivation. It makes sense, Judy, go to Tanvex, Medivation, continue on this entrepreneurship. I don't think that got lost. I think Pfizer, as I said, because of responsibility. Probably the question should be, why did you even take on Bayer's room?

Judy Chou - 00:56:21: Yeah. I guess, uh, Yeah.

Jon Chee - 00:56:23: So that's that. Even though people say, oh, everybody want that job, but, really, you now know me. You'll say, why did you even take out? Because you know you're stepping into the politics, the big companies thing, and this, and then you have the trajectory maybe continue. I think I I do have a little bit mindset about maybe one day I will be a CEO at that time, but I challenge myself when Bayer approached me why it's attractive. I feel I need to be even way more equipped. So this is a good of there's two things I do want to share. So one, then I feel like I need to be way more equipped. So put myself into this big role, and I will be even way more equipped than any start up CEO. Anyway, you can judge based on my performance now later on, but but I set the bar. Right? Right? I don't want to just being, hey. I'm an entrepreneur. I'm gonna set up a company. Please don't get me wrong. I appreciate all those CEO today, so I don't think they will do poorly or something. But I I want to be mastering, like, then I can be on my company, go to public and everything. Again, you know me by now. Like, everything I don't want to just do about, hey. If I can know how to clap hands, I can have a team. I want to be sinking in everything. So that's one thing. But also the other downside is then to leave there was super hard. Right? Because then the 15,000 people, not like that number attract me. It's more about at that time, I did have to consider maybe just stay doing that because, uh, not many people make it there. I would just say it in this podcast, not many woman make it there. Not many minority people make it there. I am this, uh, at that time, and many different kind of community was, uh, placing me as the first one or the biggest one of this and of that and this. So I know I'll be inspirational to people. And it is for younger generation feel like they don't think that is not the option. And I'm certainly to say, even today, a lot of people thinking about the option is to create my own company. Because no. I'm not going to be able to make it to the big pharma. So certain community now, uh, I'm engaged about trying to help people understand this is not, like, impossible. So that itself is mission. And second thing is, um, I went through quite a bit of, uh, turmoil on this whole Bayer organization building. It end up with 3,000 people with very painful reorg. So 500 people lay off from Berkeley campus, 500 people lay off in Germany, and we all getting another a thousand people there, have them report to me. It was tough. I think now you say you grew up in Berkeley. I'll say that a little bit more. My heart is there thinking about the people work on that campus before Bayer even is Bayer in that campus. This is three generation. This is not a job. It is life. Have them have to leave that life and rebuild a new life to tell their grandpa, grandma about I no longer work there is tough. So why am I sharing this? Because I feel if I'm gonna do it, the 15,000 people, I am going to do it till I die. I'm not going to just do it...

Judy Chou - 00:59:41: Very quick. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

Jon Chee - 00:59:43: So this is probably come to oddly. Right? Because that's why I share about my nice CEO still today trying to recruit me back, and then he's like, he know that's who I am and what I'm doing. And And yet, I feel like, Judy, if you were hired, still go by this okay. Let's just say years ago, Judy, because we talked through this. How are you going to go back to say, hey. I'll move on. I've become a pharma executive, and I'm taking care of those employee instead of creating this new drug. Am I done? By then, I do have a lot of things under my belt to say I can brag about this product. I don't think so. So I think it's a go against myself versus something I know is meaningful. So this this, uh, probably good or bad. So at the end, it was very open dialogue with, uh, Stefan and many other leader. I say, I gotta move on. I got to kinda like going back to my path. And I was saying in hindsight, some people ask me if Bayer didn't promote you so fast. Right? Maybe you will stay longer. I think that's true. But I think if you put me on such a spot, I feel like I need to do something differently. I don't want to be disingenuous about I know people following me. I know people believing me, and I earned that trust. Right? And but I don't want to fake that about my heart is somewhere else. So this is a good or bad, so I have to go. So, basically, I frankly speaking, I did not even have a Plan B thing in my heart. I gave my resignation because I know the organization need year need time to find leaders. And so it was very open dialogue with Stefan about and he's like, "Where are you going?" I just I said, "I don't know where I'm going, but I feel this is not right. This is not right. I take on this organization. I'm going to work till I die. But I don't think if my heart is still feel that day, I die. I think there's something I haven't get done when I start this whole journey, when I give up to being an engineer, when I give up to not doing other crazy art and musicians thing. It's for this just because people give you this recognition. You say, oh, that's really good. Let's just move on, whatever. I don't think that's right." So then he's like, well, okay. I respect that and but I'm very firm about this. That's why for I took quite a while to transition and also finish all those capital budget and project to build this whole vision for Bayer, then I feel the next thing for Bayer is really execution. I'm very confident about this. A lot of people can do that, and I got to move on, do something, like you say, play to my strengths. Right? So then then create something what I want to have new medicine for some question we still not address to three patients.

Judy Chou - 01:02:36: I commend you for doing that because, like, you know, that's a big headline number and and a lot of responsibility, and it's, like, tempting to just wanna put that resume pad. But I appreciate you being honest with yourself and being like, if I'm gonna do it, I actually have to wanna do it forever. That's a big responsibility to these people, and I'm not going to fake it. So I appreciate that. And so and it must have been super hard. And, you know, as, you know, you now have you put in your recognition.

Outro - 01:03:06: That's all for this episode of the Biotech Startups Podcast featuring Judy Chou. Join us next time for Part 4 where Dr. Chou recounts resigning from Bayer despite leading a 15,000-person organization, how former Genentech executives approached her about a novel PSGL-1 mechanism, and how AltruBio nearly declared bankruptcy within four months of founding. She'll also unpack breaking the ceiling for ulcerative colitis patients, building a translational research lab in Taiwan while keeping operations lean, and her unconventional answer to what advice she would give her 21-year-old self. If you enjoy the show, subscribe, leave a review, or share it with a friend. Thanks for listening, and see you next time. The Biotech Startups Podcast is produced by Excedr. Don't want to miss an episode? Search for the Biotech Startups Podcast wherever you get your podcasts, and click subscribe. Excedr provides research labs with equipment leases on founder-friendly terms to support paths to exceptional outcomes. To learn more, visit our website, www.excedr.com. On behalf of the team here at Excedr, thanks for listening. The Biotech Startups Podcast provides general insights into the life science sector through the experiences of its guests. The use of information on this podcast or materials linked from the podcast is at the user's own risk. The views expressed by the participants are their own and are not the views of Excedr or sponsors. No reference to any product, service, or company in the podcast is an endorsement by Excedr or its guests.

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