Big Pharma to Startup: Chasing a Patient‑Centric Future | Judy Chou (Part 4/4)

Intro - 00:00:06: Welcome to the Biotech Startups Podcast by Excedr. Join us as we speak with first-time founders, serial entrepreneurs, and experienced investors about the challenges and triumphs of running a biotech startup from pre-seed to IPO with your host, Jon Chee. In our last episode, Dr. Chou shared how she became employee number one at a biosimilar startup, walked alone into an FDA meeting with 32 agents, and later joined Bayer to lead global biotech operations as the first Asian woman in such a role. If you missed it, check out Part 3. In Part 4, Dr. Chou unpacks leaving Bayer despite a promotion, why former Genentech executives recruited her to evaluate a struggling company's pipeline, and how she identified PSGL-1 as a mechanism that could finally address what Humira couldn't do after twenty years. She also breaks down AltruBio's near bankruptcy within four months, the dramatic thirty-day fundraising turnaround, and how she raised a record-breaking $225 million Series B by competing with big pharma in ulcerative colitis. She reflects on mentors like Professor Martha Constantine-Paton and Nobel Laureate Bob Horvitz, who told her, "You are good" when she was ready to quit, and why she refuses to answer what advice she'd give her 21-year-old self.

Jon Chee - 00:01:47: Can you just talk a little bit about, like, the origin of AltruBio and the mission and focus and how it came to be?

Judy Chou - 00:01:55: Yeah. Again, I like the way you ask this question because it was a little bit connected. Right? So someone called me at the time knowing I got promoted because the people inside knew this, and then praised me about probably at that time being the biggest, I guess, people with this Chinese heritage, the biggest role ever. You run such a huge organization and the responsibility, the biggest one. And that was, uh, again, I already have this thought as I just shared with you, and I feel I don't deserve that title. And then there was this whole phone call about this whole congratulation and things like that. It was humbly, and I shared with this person about, hey, I hate to tell you this because I don't know how long I will last on that. And I like it. I feel that is very inspirational. There's nothing wrong. It's not like you join a mafia or something.

Jon Chee - 00:02:49: Yeah. Yeah.

Judy Chou - 00:02:50: But I said, "But I question this, and I'm wondering, is that what I want to be?". So something as I shared a moment ago. And then this person got this idea knowing I have that little hesitation there. Right? So I wasn't looking for positions, things like that. And this is getting to the former Genentech executives when they got approached by the predecessor company of AltruBio. So this had nothing to do with Genentech. This group of people—so Pat Yang, Steve Juelsgaard, Sean Bohen—people approached them. The investor of the predecessor company said, "Hey, if you guys can make a difference because you guys are pretty good at the antibody field and the novel antibody".

Judy Chou - 00:03:34: And the predecessor company struggled on very novel science, super innovative. Uh, well, I wouldn't use that word. Super creative, because I think they were short of innovating for product. So that's why I say my innovation is very specifically defined: you've got to innovate for product. Other things are all discovery or creative. So they were stuck there, not able to move on to this. So then they approached me to say, "Hey, Judy, can you just help us take a look? You see if there's any potential of this?". Because they are thinking about taking over the company because they all left Genentech and retired and something in between of a job or something like that.

Judy Chou - 00:04:13: So I took a look. I think out of the whole pipeline of the predecessor company, this particular technology—now AltruBio's—is very unique. I say, and I compare certain data... I'm in immunology. We probably won't have time to talk about it. So throughout my course of career, it is more focused on oncology and launched many oncology drugs. But my first job was Humira. Right? So I know that field very well and still follow through, and it's probably gonna surprise you. And I see, hey, this data looks really better than even old days looking at the immunological drug. And Humira can be so successful. Why not this? And also not to mention, I know what Humira can do. I also know what Humira cannot do. So I feel there's still a medical need. This is a luxury of my life.

Jon Chee - 00:05:01: It's kind of like the biosimilar. It's like, I know it's like this circle here. I know I can play outside. It's kinda like Humira. Like, I know where Humira plays, but I also know where it doesn't.

Judy Chou - 00:05:13: In this case also, because Humira is anti-TNF. Anti-TNF has been a very effective drug. But I'd consider I'm very lucky about, you know, like, many novel targets when we talk about since Humira. And I hope I wish you also be able to do what I do. You say, "Oh, this is great. This is going to be..." then years later, you can kind of brag about it. I have this luxury to say that I was one of the first ones working with anti-TNF. But I think the further luxury—or maybe what I really have—is then after twenty years, right, you know what TNF cannot address. You know how many patients couldn't benefit from this mechanism. You don't know what's the solution.

Judy Chou - 00:05:54: As I say, in biotech, the question is always very obvious, different from high-tech. Right? Because that question comes from whatever the special people put together, but more about... and then how are we going to address that?. So I feel this technology now I'm working on may actually come from that and go totally different and go and to be able to address that. So I told them, like, this is very cool stuff. So I endorsed this particular one. The others, I don't think you guys should do this. Otherwise, they got excited not because of me saying that—they all have the joint same vision and same idea about, hey, novel targets in immunology make a difference. They decided to form the company, take over, and transform, but they needed a CEO.

Judy Chou - 00:06:40: So probably fast forward then, they persuaded me. They go, "Why don't you just join us being the CEO?". And so I have to say 50% about the science. 50% because of that. Because I feel like that positive experience at Genentech was so good. Right? And this is probably particular in your podcast because you bother taking the time to talk through it, and you can see it's not just, hey, because of Genentech people. It's because we jointly kinda moved so many projects, and I was there working with all those executives, um, reviewing the project and thinking about the commercial strategy and everything.

Judy Chou - 00:07:14: So I said, well, this is golden because you don't run into that having this group of people. And then we also persuaded two more executives. So we have everything. We have financial, research, clinical development, CMC, legal. So all those leaders during my Genentech time all left Genentech and said, "Hey, why not just join together?". I know we got a name. Some people joke about, AltruBio is this Genentech mafia. I'm not gonna be embarrassed to say, yeah. So this was the nucleus of the startup of the company. So I say, okay. This was more or less already when I was in transit out of Bayer. And I say, well, why don't I do this one?. Because this one has this whole nature about both the science and also this group of people.

Jon Chee - 00:07:52: You got the band back together.

Judy Chou - 00:07:54: Yeah. The downside is now, I hope to say... the capital is horrible. It's, um, um, it did not have the needed money to start with, but I'll pause that here. But, basically, that's how this whole start came about. Let's do this as my first CEO gig, and you have to keep in mind also 2020 in the beginning when I took on this role, biotech was in this glorious bubble. Everything will be like, oh, you just have something, you go IPO, and those things. Not like I have an IPO dream, but more about, oh, it's not gonna be so hard. So that's okay. This... it doesn't have money. Oh, that's okay. We can raise money. But it was not the case for this company, definitely. Yeah.

Jon Chee - 00:08:34: Very interesting origin, and I I love how it comes kind of, like, full circle back to the Genentech colleagues and experience that you had. And now that you've, uh, you guys have pushed off, can you talk a little bit about AltruBio's mission and focus and maybe the way that you guys are disrupting the status quo?.

Judy Chou - 00:08:54: Yeah. Thank you for highlighting that because, definitely, this is a mechanism very unique. I think we're still one and only to my knowledge. So I don't know if anybody in the same mold doing something. So our research team is the first one to discover PSGL-1 as a new target for immunological diseases. And then throughout a lot of research and things, even put out the first-generation molecule already clinically validated. It works for psoriasis, psoriatic arthritis, ulcerative colitis—so in IBD space—as well as GVHD.

Judy Chou - 00:09:28: But the problem is all of the clinical trials, say, not really kinda in the past about going to this approval role, but more about, like, a research question. So you're just trying to ask a question out of the clinical trial. So it's probably not something you can immediately put into clinical. And also in 2020, when I started this company, the first-generation molecule is in weekly IV dosage form. Again, now we chat about this. My heart is with the patient. When we aim to treat such a difficult-to-treat patient, it is a torture for a patient to need to go into the clinic every week, do the infusion. Yes. Many other drugs still go in taking Humira. That's totally that. But I feel twenty years later, I can no longer feel I can have my face straight to say that's okay.

Judy Chou - 00:10:20: So, painfully, you have to kind of make the decision about almost like you have the path to kinda go to Phase 3. You have to make a decision about some unknown. Like, we can develop another generation molecule based on the same science and yet better. Right? So it would need to be subcutaneous, very convenient for the patient. And particularly now, we are working on ulcerative colitis. For anyone not familiar with the disease and IBD—both Crohn's and ulcerative colitis—the patient's life is very miserable. So we're talking about even to recruit to our trial, most of the patients will have, um, the stool frequency is, like, 20 times a day. That's just twenty-four hours a day.

Judy Chou - 00:11:06: And we're not talking about you just go to the bathroom. We're talking about diarrhea for 20 times a day. And this is not even pretty about it's the blood coming along with that. It's a pain coming along with that. Imagine that life: you need to go to the clinic once a week to do infusion. It's just unthinkable about that being a feasible drug. So most of the products nowadays start going to the subcutaneous, and oral drug is still a pipe dream. So I think we cannot just brag about we have the novel mechanism without solving that problem. So like you say, you actually need the vision about AltruBio.

Judy Chou - 00:11:42: So definitely, we take the patient-centric, right, so seriously to the degree. And that part didn't surprise you after we chatted for so long. And so I don't want to be here just collecting money or things like that and then just say, oh, I have one more, check the box. Anything I do has got to be meaningful, really, putting the science innovation and helping patients together. So we took this very painful decision after Series A, but, fortunately, also because our Series A, we oversubscribed. We're starting to design the second generation while we're trying to wrap up the GVHD study for the first generation. So the aspiration is in really leveraging this novel mechanism and then to make a difference.

Judy Chou - 00:12:31: And what's the special niche to the other part of your question?. The PSGL-1 mechanism turns out to be PSGL-1 is one of this immune checkpoint regulator. So like other immune checkpoint regulators, the job is supposed to be like this brake of the car. Before your car is driving, no matter how you push the brake, it doesn't do anything. But the job is when the car is running like crazy, then you are, "Oh, too fast.". It doesn't need to be crazy yet. Uh, then you have to push the brake to kinda slow down this immune system. When the brake is not working, the immune system just keeps going, and that's how this whole autoimmune severity as I described, it's there.

Judy Chou - 00:13:17: So the role of being able to help the brake to work is important. So this idea is in everybody's mind. And, nowadays, even some companies are working on PD-1 the other way around because for oncologists, the other thing. You're trying to lift the brake, make it not working so then you can go suppress the cancer. Okay. Let's not confuse ourselves on that. Just to put that aside. But many other companies think, well, if PD-1 works so well in oncology, we kinda turn. So I think that's very admirable. So I'm not gonna make any comment about that. Doesn't make sense.

Judy Chou - 00:13:48: But for us, our research team, I'll give them credit. Before immune checkpoint regulator even is a thing, like, there's no such a term, they discover PSGL-1. And I have to say since 2022, we're starting looking into this research more. We start sorted out in the past three years. Hey, PSGL-1 actually is an immune checkpoint regulator. What we are helping is this whole immune checkpoint function. So we are truly this whole immune checkpoint agonist function trying to just help PSGL-1 do its job. So because of that, we are treating the very problematic chronically activated T cells.

Judy Chou - 00:14:32: So compared to modern medicine today in let's just zoom in to UC, for the ulcerative colitis. No surprise like anti-TNF is the anti-cytokine. It's there. The job of those drugs are putting off the fires, the burning fire. So right?. So you suppress the cytokine. Hey, good. But the downside is I say I know what anti-TNF couldn't do because it's just so much so. If you don't remove the source of the fire, the fire will come back. So, sadly to say, for most of the patients, for anti-TNF work for them, particularly a severe patient, within two years or maybe beyond two years, they just have to cycle through different kind of drugs. You take one fire extinguisher, change it to another fire extinguisher without treating the source of the fire.

Judy Chou - 00:15:20: So the unique part of our mechanism, we are fundamentally removing or down-regulating those T cells. So we really down-regulate, bring it back to the homeostasis. That's ultimately I really do believe in for immunology. Whoever can find that secret about to bring back the immune balance, that's the key. It's very different from oncology. Oncology, because the problem is severe enough, you just want to suppress. But immunology is too much or too little. You really need to kinda adjust to that middle balance. It's not so much about I don't believe those suppressing cytokine drugs is still helpful, but it's not going to profoundly make that huge difference.

Judy Chou - 00:16:00: So that's why we have the special angle coming in. I can be here bragging about, yeah. Because of that, we already have a clinical data, as I say, showing first gen. And soon, we'll have data on our second gen to demonstrate that. But even the part also, we're creating much more patient-friendly and then like to so-called break the ceiling about that remission rate. So this is the last piece I'll definitely say. So for UC, for example, nowadays, for the best drug, we're still talking about thirty percent for all comers. So all the severe to the less severe patient. Imagine that, like your beloved one, right, go to see a doctor and then the doctor can, at best, just say, hey, try this. It may work for you.

Judy Chou - 00:16:47: So that's thirty percent means ten patients, only three of them, after one or two year treatment realize this drug doesn't work for you. That's sad. That's not acceptable. Right?. So we really want to do is then to be able to introduce a drug to let the doctor be able to tell our loved one about, hey, this patient or your loved one will have higher than fifty percent chance this drug will work for him or her. So that's our ambition. So we are putting a lot of effort trying to understand the science better, identify the right patient population. That's another approach. Definitely, we take it very, very seriously. Everybody says that, but we take it whole nine yards about to really dig into the approach to achieve that. So this is maybe a long answer to your question, but that's overall what AltruBio wants to achieve.

Jon Chee - 00:17:36: That's very awesome. And, also, it reminds me of your medical school experience. Right?. It's like, this is insufficient. This is not how it should be. If this is the standard of care, it is not okay.

Judy Chou - 00:17:48: Exactly. I think you say that very well. Now you you know that. Right?. Because this is what not every single of my team member... I got to share this story to this degree. Maybe after your podcast is out, they got to listen to this. A lot of time when we are talking about strategy, I even say this is echoing your point. I say, this is crazy. This made me feel very uncomfortable. This is made me doubt all the way back about the helpless feeling. I said, I don't like that. I don't like we just having one of the medicine and then, like, the time in the old day. He do the chemo, he do the radiation. Hey. Try pulmonary transportation. I'm so proud about whole oncology field. So this is one of the most fulfilling thing for my life. Right?. Because then today, the oncology treatment changed totally different from the textbook I read back to my medical school tech. That I feel proud. I think, like all those terminal conditions have been changed to become treatable. In other words, you need to move to that degree. Cannot be twenty years ago, I was so proud about Humira, and today, I'm still brag about that. That is wrong. It doesn't really truly profoundly benefit the patient. We need to work out there for that too.

Jon Chee - 00:19:02: And as you're building AltruBio, you might have mentioned it. Is it kind of like the Medivation kind of like leaner style, or is it kind of like everything in-house Pfizer style?.

Judy Chou - 00:19:12: You got it. Right? So when I have such a good experience in Medivation, I think if David Hung is listening to this, he would laugh about this. I'm copying him. So I I do think that's a successful thing because at the end, really, was very beneficial for patient because of speed and then also for employees. When we sold it to Pfizer, I don't need to say more. Right?. I say just in three months, the value of the company from 9 billion to 14.3. People say, well, it must be very sad that you guys want to build a company. Yeah. Indeed. It's still sad and emotional, but I think nobody complained.

Jon Chee - 00:19:49: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think they're okay.

Judy Chou - 00:19:50: Yeah. They are okay. Yeah. They are doing I okay. Yeah.. So I feel like then they got to be somebody dare to step in such a startup setting. Like, my company need to have that level of the reward at the end. So we build a lean... maybe I'll just elaborate a little bit more so not confuse any audience. So definitely, in our San Francisco office—so no surprise. We have our headquarters downtown San Francisco, like Medivation, and then we build everything, like, top heavy. So meaning, like, all board. Right? Know everything how to do the biotech and our leadership team. It's very experienced drug developer, but we don't overbuild the team, and we try to leverage the CRO, CDMO, and working on that.

Judy Chou - 00:20:46: However, I do care about the fundamental thing about that novel science. Right?. You've got to have that space very, very strong. Particularly, we are having this whole groundbreaking technology, and we got to know very well. So the other investor conference, I think, is the analyst asked me about, "Are you still... looks like you're going to have a big news coming out of Phase 2". So I'm curious about—so this is his question—he said, "I'm curious about you have such a novel target. This probably will be helpful for the investor to know. So are you still doing some preclinical work?". I think he meant for me to say, probably doesn't matter or the clinical result will prove I am right or something.

Judy Chou - 00:21:28: So my answer is that I told him, "Well, great innovation comes great responsibility.". So there's no doubt we have to be very good at the whole translational research. And this is business driven. It's not just vision, and I'll tell you. So that's why this March 2025, we launched our translational lab in Taipei, Taiwan. Maybe a little bit no surprise about where I came from, and I know the talents are there. It's another well-known biotech hub for many people outside of Taiwan, but I do think the talent can be leveraged. So we have a lab 100% focus on translational research, not just because of fulfilling this whole vision about science need to be solid, but it's a business.

Judy Chou - 00:22:09: Because the more we understand this, we own the space even more. So I cannot share a lot of strategy we have on building our kitchen in a very efficient way. So to answer your question, why I have this lean operation leadership team?. But also, we do have this little lab, almost also a little bit like Medivation. We build this mission bay lab and still address the key question, debottleneck the issue. And for AltruBio then, that is this translational research. So that's how our footprint, we set up the company to build out competitive strengths, not just being experienced job developer, and I'll give a lot of my peers credit now they left pharma. Uh, many of them is like the leader you and I chat about. They actually do know many things, not just they know certain piece. And so I think that's good. AltruBio also has that. And then at the same time, we need to have some competitive strengths about certain core technology. We know very well, and we can master and build pipeline out of it.

Jon Chee - 00:23:04: Very cool. Very cool. And I I love that. I I think it's like every experience is accretive and it's, like, builds and it builds and it builds on top of each other. And it seems like this is, like, certainly, like feels like a culmination of, like, all the acquired experiences and learning that you've had. And you mentioned earlier that funding kinda started in 2020, and we're kind of, like, now in 2025, very different times. Like, how is your philosophy on fundraising and, you know, maybe any tips for anyone out there?.

Judy Chou - 00:23:32: Sure. Sure. Very happy to share this. I got invited to many, many different forums to... to maybe using that backward. We finished our Series B last year, 2024 in May. We raised up to 225 million. I was told we are still the record-holding about the biggest Series B. I mean, you we heard about people do A and C that size, but not B because B is like this death valley. Right? So you need a lot of money in the clinical, but you don't have that proof of concept of efficacy. So very happy and very proud about my team. We achieved that.

Judy Chou - 00:24:08: So that's where everybody is starting to ask me about the question about that. I do think the credit goes to we not shy about to answer the big question. I can tell you when we decide to work on UC back to 2021, 2022, I always joke about we discuss internally a 100 times. Um, well, probably, that's true. So this is a big decision about the little AltruBio want to compete with big pharma. So up to this moment today, non-burning standalone biotech companies are doing UC because most of them all got acquired by big pharma. So we're competing with big pharma in this indication. It's a tough decision, but I do think this novel mechanism got to apply to where the medical need as you and I talk about, so I'm not going to be redundant.

Judy Chou - 00:24:52: That's one thing. I think you also say that sentence. Right? Good things also always come back. So little did we know when we make that decision. Along the way, always got questions. And many investors walk away from us to say, you're not gonna make it. I I don't want to waste my money on this. But right before we close our Series B, so end of the 2023, there are many big deals done in UC. So I think we're just right on that wave about, hey, people just look at around. Listen. What's the other side? Yeah. Yeah. They will be like, we need to grab this one. So I do think we got lucky because of that, because then we are on this hot topic.

Judy Chou - 00:25:29: And then this, I would definitely would justify for my team. It's not just myself. Right?. Because then people say, oh, you got lucky because you must know. You do UC you can raise money. The strategy was set up three years ago before we closed that, and then we stick to it. Right?. So we stick. So people use a word about being, like, a resilience. It's I like the word grit more because that's where you kinda already see what you don't have, and you stick to that. So it's not just persistent on the same old thing, but it's like we're moving along trying to adjust the strategy. That's one. But second, also, again, I'll give my team the credit about we deliver because the term sheet we got was from investors back then when say, "Well, if you can show me your not existing second molecule, because when we close our... there's a... this is a pipe dream about how we're gonna have this higher potent molecule and then go into clinical and then sub-q. Like, if you can show that to me and then we have Phase 2 IND clear, I'll be leaving. And then I will write you a term sheet.".

Judy Chou - 00:26:33: That to the credit about this investor. I called them the day, not just we clear IND, but we inject our first, uh, patients or first patient in and say, hey. You know? Remember you say that many years ago, and then I want to call you to tell you this is good news. We just have the first patient in on Phase 2. And then to this investor credit, right, some investor, uh, second time, but this investor definitely just say, okay. Expect a term sheet. So that's how we get things going, and I think that was just, you know, three years, um, was quick. Right? So the the execution, as we're talking about the lean structure, we're managing to really using very little money and create something big.

Judy Chou - 00:27:14: So this is probably the Series B Series A, then I'm kinda going backwards to just complete the question. So AltruBio started, uh, as I say, was first maybe, not me, but I think many people have thought about the raising money is not a big deal. So then we were really broke. And I say I took on this role in 2020. October 2020... so we build a company, register a company in June 2020. In four months, the board's topic is about, okay, this is it. So October, maybe next board meeting we're in this crisis already, so monthly board meeting. And the board saying, well, just come back to show us the bankruptcy plan. Right?. So, basically, you have to manage in the bankruptcy good enough.

Judy Chou - 00:27:54: So but one of the board members at that time, for no good reason, maybe just being polite and say because this is all my formal Genentech executives. So, basically and they just... the person is asking me about, "What do you think, Judy?". And I don't know what's wrong with me, but I basically just say, "Me? Oh, I I will ask you guys to give me thirty days without thinking about bankruptcy.". After thirty days, if I have no update, then let's talk about bankruptcy. Can I just don't even worry about bankruptcy? Just give me thirty extra days to do fundraising. So, magically, that thirty days, uh, turn this company around.

Jon Chee - 00:28:48: Amazing.

Judy Chou - 00:28:49: The investors, aMoon. So, unfortunately, the partner left the firm already. But I got this instinct a little bit about right before that board meeting, he and I chatted. And I know already we're going nowhere, and this is not like being introduced about the interest in company or whatever. I need to ask him probably. But he just interested to get to know me, then we chat a little bit. I actually feel like, well, I should continue have some dialogue and having a little bit time with him. So I give him some quite a bit of credit because then I turn around immediately just tell him about, hey. I only have three days and if you're interested in whatever you need. Right?.

Judy Chou - 00:29:28: And then I have to tell you, people may say, well, aMoon did a rush decision. No. aMoon has this notorious reputation about if people hire three different firms to do due diligence, they do three times three. So then in a sense about every single firm is allowed to ask you every single question, and then we have to kinda very quickly. So, basically, he challenged me about if you guys can put together everything quickly and there's a case to build to the investment committee, then we can try.

Judy Chou - 00:29:54: So that dramatic story about then, I think I got my term sheet right in that end of the thirty days or a draft concept. It's maybe it's not term sheet, but it's more about proposal. And I bring to my board to say, hey. Let's take it seriously. And then aMoon like us so much, and basically say, we just want to have 30 million to finish the first generation, get further proof of concept. And you have to also understand this is everything's in COVID, extremely difficult, and the enrollment of patients almost going nowhere, particularly GVHD. Right? Because most of the GVHD patients shouldn't even go to hospital because that's very dangerous. They would die by COVID. And so was very, very hard, but we're managing to pull this together and then attract also Blackstone [B Capital], BVF joined us and oversubscribed with that little extra money because they did ask me about, if we give you 50 million, what do you want to do?.

Judy Chou - 00:30:52: And this probably didn't surprise you because I already have this second gen in my mind, like... and I immediately just write a proposal about this is how second gen is going to look like, and then we're going to do this follow the timeline. So we end up raising 63 million, also way more than we were now to raise. If I have anything to share with anybody, nowadays, raising money, I do think when we got into with that great history, but you know the capital market for biotech crash since just April 2021 never really quite come back yet up to today. It was a hard thing on Series B, so I think probably what I shared a moment ago about the execution and stick to your vision, that's probably the most important thing. I think then it will come. That will be my particular suggestion about for anybody still struggling on this raising money stage.

Jon Chee - 00:31:46: Wow. The turnaround is incredible. Like, yeah, what a what a turnaround. Like, that's like, you know, you just kind of got the crash course. It's like....

Judy Chou - 00:31:54: It is.

Jon Chee - 00:31:54: It is. That was a proper crash course. And as you're looking one year, two years out for AltruBio, what's in store for you guys?.

Judy Chou - 00:32:02: Yeah. So we are up to this very competitive UC. I'm pretty excited about data is coming, uh, next year, and we are not probably talking about data yet. So this will be groundbreaking about totally different approach and maybe a little bit breaking the ceiling without and unique mechanism. The other thing very, very different from most of the UC drug is then we already know it worked for dermatology, rheumatology because the first gen, all those hard work pays out for, you know, liver disease and many other things.

Judy Chou - 00:32:32: So we cannot wait to move this use to the UC trial to get to the, you know, launch this product. The second thing also to open up the pipeline in product concept. Right? So we'd be able to look at other indications and, you know, many other approach, the precision medicine, combo therapy. I mean, a lot of things we can further burden that. Now we chat about this from the very beginning about Humira, then you can see this is probably not unusual. Right? Because the Humira humbly start from projecting five hundred million. I was thinking about rheumatoid arthritis. The success about twenty billion is because it's applicability to many diseases.

Judy Chou - 00:33:07: So that's AltruBio's goal, because I think immunology got to be like that. And many patients suffering compounding disease. So it's not just UC and they have maybe the arthritis issue and many, many other issues. So if one mechanism can address many questions, that's where it should be. So I see for two, three years, we like to be able to launch this drug with or without partnership. I mean, I go with whatever will accelerate the launch of the product. I say that a minute. I don't mean necessary then to lend it to a big pharma is good. I've been to too many big pharma. I wouldn't say that necessary is faster. So we evaluate that to see if we do it as faster, we'll do it. And if uh, partnered it out or licensing out, uh, make more sense, we'll do it too. Because I think at this stage of my career, I want to see this get to the patient fast. And particularly now in the clinical trial, we know how many patients alive we have changed. And I cannot wait we can get to that point. Yeah. That's probably when you asked me two, three years, I think that's the goal. It's a pretty exciting and also, uh, ten years to come.

Jon Chee - 00:34:31: Yeah. Very exciting. I'm pumped for you. This is super sweet. Like, to be quite honest, like, coming out from there and, like, basically, you're running the company, you have really run the gamut of experiences. Like, again, you're just, like, have really, like, across the spectrum too. Like, it's, like, you know, it's not all good. It's not all bad. You have, like, highs. You have the lows. I'm rooting for you guys for, you know, success, like, in, you know, in the coming years. And, again, dude, you've been so generous with your time and all your insights, and thank you for being willing to share all these personal experiences. So thank you. And in traditional closing fashion for the podcast, I have two questions. One is, would you like to give any shout outs to anyone who has supported you along the way? I know you've given some already.

Judy Chou - 00:35:16: No. I I do think it's many, many people can be named, and I don't want to drag on this question. I think most of them are already named throughout the course we chat, but I want to go back to my Yale time. The first year of my graduate school time. I'm a mother myself, and that wasn't what I planned in the graduate school time to give birth to my first child. It was hard. And I have to say at that time, I was ready to give up. Given all the things I talk about, I feel like being a mother is so important, and I don't have people help me financially. I cannot support that. And traditionally, also, that makes sense. I'm the one to give up and everything.

Judy Chou - 00:35:54: So I give the I think it's one person or maybe two people, I will say, uh, I didn't mention. One is Professor Martha Constantine-Paton. She's, like, a sharpest professor in the biology field and neuroscience also. And then I feel like almost like I'm a failure in some sense. Right? Because she's so successful and everything. And then when she heard about, I talked about to quit. This is after this is after I got my five honors and got all the fellowship and all those things. Right? And then I still was not convinced because I think the reality pushed me back.

Judy Chou - 00:36:25: She called me to her office, and then something she say really made me where I am. Right?. Because she told me about how many women really focus on a career and the end really regret and not having this luxury of being a mother and having a family. And she said, you have something that's precious, so don't give up. Uh, but then even more she say, this sound a little bit just like nothing, but she say, "Hey, Judy. You are good. You understand? You are good. This whole world needs you. Don't look down on that. This is not small. You're gonna make a huge difference to the world, and you just give up now. This is nonsense.".

Judy Chou - 00:37:05: And I have to tell you, maybe this is silly me about please bear with me. First, in grad school, foreign student, and this is all even with all those scholarship. Maybe I'm just good at study or whatever. And there was this professor who was, like, super sharp and everybody's scared talking to her. I woke up on her face like, yes. I'm good. Yes. I'm good. I can make it. So I love that. This whole push. And I don't know how I'm gonna solve this problem about taking care of the baby, deal with my study, and everything. But I was like, but giving my math, I said, you are good. So that's taking me.

Judy Chou - 00:37:44: Like, really, I tough through my grad school. But definitely, another thing I say maybe just not just her, but also Martha later on married Bob Horvitz, so who actually owned the Nobel Prize in 2002 for apoptosis. And this couple made a huge difference too. Bob really encouraged me when I talk about my home alone life, about by myself, and he, of course, visit Yale very frequently because at that time, Martha was still at Yale. Later on, they both, uh, Martha moved to MIT, joined him to be in MIT professors. And he will always visit me in my this dungeon or whatever the temporary card and then chat about my research and brainstorm about this.

Judy Chou - 00:38:22: And recently, we we connect and we talk about this, but he say I gave him too much credit. Really, it was a huge difference because he did not have the Nobel Prize yet. But I consider him, like, somewhere, like, really highly respect. He's just maybe this prodigy in biology. Right?. Maybe the Albert Einstein in biology figured out so many things out of the C. elegans and published all the paper way ahead of anybody else. So no doubt he got this Nobel Prize everybody respect, and he's still in the neuroscience, and he moved on to that area. But every time he chat with me, he treat me just like another Nobel Laureate to talking to him, and that gave me all those confidence.

Judy Chou - 00:38:59: I really think this couple make a huge difference to my career about later on my academic life. Even in the industry, I I actually, I have people really my luxury about following me like a different company I work and they just move with me. And then I remember one of the member, at some point, people asked him about, why do you follow Judy alone?. And then this person's answer was even though just one person, but I I feel like, uh, that's such an honor. I trust her scientific instinct. It's never actually went wrong yet, so I want to follow her just for that. And I do think that level of confidence of myself and and really have to think about start, humble, consider I'm nobody, and someone see through me, give me that level of confidence. I would give that as a extra shout out. Definitely, many people supporting me become where I am today, but I'll give that extra credit about that's, like, this root of mental. I like the where you start with and build that level of confidence.

Jon Chee - 00:40:14: That's amazing. And for someone to do that for you or two people to do that for you is such a gift, like, an absolute gift. Yeah. I couldn't imagine how down in the dumps you felt and just for someone to bring you back up and put you back on your feet is, again, just like Exactly. That's what it sounds like. And the last question I have for you is, like, if you can give any advice to your 21 year old self, what would it be?.

Judy Chou - 00:40:34: So maybe after we chat about this, I I personally don't like that question.

Jon Chee - 00:40:39: Okay. Okay.

Judy Chou - 00:40:40: And I will say why? Maybe that's not your intention. But I feel like almost the question imply I could have done better. Right?. And I won't describe my life as perfect. But I feel like every up and down, I learned so much. Right? So I worry about if I go back to my twenty years....

Jon Chee - 00:40:56: here. Yeah.

Judy Chou - 00:40:57: Yeah. That's not good.

Jon Chee - 00:40:59: Yeah. Yeah. That's an interesting answer. I haven't gotten that one before, to be quite honest. It's just like, actually, you just have to go through it.

Judy Chou - 00:41:06: I think so.

Jon Chee - 00:41:07: You have to go through it.

Judy Chou - 00:41:08: Yeah. Seriously, I know it sounds so arrogant the way I answer so much. Oh, I have a perfect life. Why do I want to change?. But I feel like if I miss this, if I did not have to be home alone to get my PhD, I wouldn't be this. Right? But if I were answer your question the other way around, if this of 21 year old and that did happen now to my luxury. Um, people want to follow me. Right? So they would be like, hey, give me some tips about because I just want to be you. That was very honorable. And this Judy Chou club has been going around. And, seriously, it was a little bit scary. They were studying... somehow, they say certain question. I was like, wow. How did you even know that?.

Judy Chou - 00:41:59: But if anybody, 21 year old, say want to be me, and if anything I want to say, I think it's a little bit like, carry, what do you say a moment ago?. I would say find your passion and stick to it. Right?. Don't define your path because my career is a good golden example about maybe I'm not, like, swinging around, but I think something consistent is this passion. Right? And I asked my question every single position I went through, is this agree with my passion?. And I particularly name this out. Uh, maybe that's how I'm old. But in my days, people change jobs so often, consider bad, just really bad. So I think up to maybe my which position? I would say maybe Medivation or something. One of the questions still, like, how come you change your job so often?. And nowaday become how come you're still in this company so long? So it's totally different.

Judy Chou - 00:42:53: And so am I going to brag about I know it? Time will change if people appreciate. No. I didn't. But I think the past, I decide not to be defined by others or the existing, but more about just stick to your passion. And I think then, at the end, you will kinda come to somewhere. You have a story you feel good about and proud about. I'm not done yet. I'm not going to say, uh, Yeah. I mean, given all those look at both, you know, product, how many are driven, and then also the patients, the employees, financial, and everything. I don't want to be here brag about this. I'm not done. But I think if anybody want to get to certain degree, being a big pharma executive, being a CEO, being some role you really dream about. I would say don't just define your path. Like, I I got to get this, then I get that. And I think many questions you asked me, I will have to answer by, like, oh, I didn't know this. I didn't know that. So that's my clarification about why I would not answer that question, but I'll answer the question the other way around.

Jon Chee - 00:43:48: Absolutely. And I think it rings true. It's like everyone's just figuring it out. You're just figuring it out. If anyone tells you there's a preset path, they're probably lying to you. Like....

Judy Chou - 00:43:58: And and and also because I think it's fair to say to me and my parents. Right? So that generation is a time. My parents will tell me something, and more or less when I get to the job market, it will be this kind of job. But I think I'm very, very happy about today for the younger generation. You are going to be something there's no such a job your parents had. So I think that's good. That's a good thing. It's not a bad thing. So what good about your parent told you or anybody told you about you've got to be this. Right? In my days, maybe I'll end this sharing a joke. Uh, my parents are professors. So in their wildest dream, if I don't become a professor, at least being a MD, being a medical doctor.

Judy Chou - 00:44:48: And for years, I'm in the industry. And I good to remember when I took a Bayer's job and I call home, say, hey. Guess what? I'm going to be biotech head of Bayer pharmaceutical. This is was pretty advanced of my career already. Right? And guess what my mom say? And she's like, "Oh, as another this... I mean, when are you going to really get a real job? You had to understand you are not young anymore, and you've been fooling around all those years.". Right? And for those whatever that company worked for, and we never couldn't figure out what's that. And then can you just be a medical director and go back to your professor and do one of them and rather than do this?. Right? It just frustrated both for her and for me to hear that. So I think I was like, okay. I'm going nowhere.

Jon Chee - 00:45:30: Yeah. You too.

Judy Chou - 00:45:31: Fine. So I I was trying to end that conversation in a positive way. I said, okay. Uh, just one more thing to tell you. I'm gonna move to Switzerland because my headquarters in Switzerland, just so you know. I don't know. No. That's we should just wrap this discussion because you're not exciting about this. She's like trying to cheer me up. She's like, oh, that that. Uh, Yeah. That. So, Judy, just remember to buy yourself a nice Swiss watch so she cares about it.

Jon Chee - 00:45:56: So funny. That's so funny.

Judy Chou - 00:45:58: My employee after I'm being a Bayer, everybody laugh nonstop about, did you not know?. Like, that's okay. That's okay.

Jon Chee - 00:46:05: It's okay. We won't.

Judy Chou - 00:46:06: Is yeah. The point is right?. So you don't need to have people define your... by now, I have to give my parent credit, so I don't want them to listen to this podcast got disappointed. That that's how I create this evil image. And so they definitely now starting to see the beauty and those things, the impact, and walking around in the hospital or their doctors. Right? They will be like, oh, is that your daughter?. And I think they're starting to realize that impact, which may be... and, again, I say my parents are pretty traditional, but still they have this very open minded. They were like, oh, I'm glad you actually did that.

Judy Chou - 00:46:48: So the point I want to say is I think today, the modern days, it's even better. There's an even new position, and that can really create something we did not know or to us and to our children. Uh, they will have something even more creative and make a huge impact to the world, so that's good.

Jon Chee - 00:46:59: Absolutely. And, honestly, I don't know a better place to round things out. This has been so much fun, Judy. Thank you again. Very, very generous with your time. I know you're super busy, so thank you for sending us time with me. Knowing that you guys are based in San Francisco, we should grab coffee. I'm right there. So, you know, thanks again.

Judy Chou - 00:47:18: Thank you for having me.

Jon Chee - 00:47:19: Yeah. And, hopefully, the next time, I'll be able to see you in person. And thank you again for all the insights, all of your experiences, and your personal stories, showing us, like, what motivates you. It's been illuminating, and I wanna thank you again.

Judy Chou - 00:47:32: Thank you so much. Uh, it's nice chatting with you too.

Outro - 00:47:37: Thanks for listening to our four-part series featuring Judy Chou. From Taiwan to Yale, Harvard, pioneering high-throughput screening, building Genentech's Oceanside department, leading global biotech at Bayer, and now developing first-in-class immune checkpoint agonists at AltruBio, Dr. Chou's story shows how following your passion can lead to breakthrough innovation that changes patients' lives. If you enjoy the show, please subscribe, leave a review, or share it with a friend. Join us for our next series featuring Caleb Appleton, partner at Bison Ventures, an early-stage venture capital firm investing at the intersection of biology and computation. Before joining Bison Ventures, Caleb served as principal at Innovation Endeavors, focusing on frontier technology investments across synthetic biology and AI-driven drug discovery and brings operating experience from TuneIn where he led product and growth initiatives. With a background in biomedical engineering and a track record of identifying transformative companies at the earliest stages, Caleb's insights into how computation and artificial intelligence are reshaping drug discovery combined with his hands-on understanding of scaling breakthrough science make this a conversation you won't want to miss. The Biotech Startups Podcast is produced by Excedr. Don't want to miss an episode?. Search for the Biotech Startups Podcast wherever you get your podcasts and click subscribe. Excedr provides research labs with equipment leases on founder-friendly terms to support paths to exceptional outcomes. To learn more, visit our website, www.excedr.com. On behalf of the team here at Excedr, thanks for listening. The Biotech Startups Podcast provides general insights into the life science sector through the experiences of its guests. The use of information on this podcast or materials linked from the podcast is at the user's own risk. The views expressed by the participants are their own and are not the views of Excedr or sponsors. No reference to any product, service, or company in the podcast is an endorsement by Excedr or its guests.