The Diamond of Success: 4 Traits Every Leader Need | Michael Newton (Part 1/4)

[00:00:00] Jon Chee:  Michael, so good to see you again. Thanks for coming on the podcast.

[00:00:03] Michael Newton:  Yeah. Awesome, John. So good to be with you. How's everything?

[00:00:05] Jon Chee:  It's been good. I know we had this on the calendar for a really long time, and, uh, you know, we were talking to Nick. And it sometimes feels like a time warp. Like, it feels like it's been an attorney, but it is also so good to see you again. It feels like it's been a day. But we've really been looking forward to this conversation, and I've frankly been really hyped up at the run up of this. And in typical biotech startups podcast fashion, we always like to start at the very beginning and really get into the what inspired you to pursue business and science eventually, because we always think that how you grew up, there's probably a lot of formative experiences that kind of shape your path. So take us all the way back. What was your upbringing like? What was young Michael like?

[00:00:48] Michael Newton:  Oh, man. I was a nerd. So, uh, no. I was just, you know, really fortunate to have an incredible childhood. So born and raised in New York City on the Island Of Manhattan, very much a proud New Yorker. My parents are actually both Australian, so first generation. But, funnily enough, they actually met in New York. Uh, and so my mom's originally from Perth. My dad's originally from Sydney, and they kind of met through the Australian mafia that existed in the city Yeah. You know, back in, you know, 1969, 1970, around then. And so they've been now New Yorkers for as far as you can believe. Right? My mom became an American in '83. I think my dad became an American in '81. So, you know, very much, like, long time. But grew up in New York where it was a very different place than it is today. Uh, frankly, much grittier.

[00:01:37] Jon Chee:  I was gonna say. Yeah. Like, that time period, I've heard stories.

[00:01:41] Michael Newton:  Yeah. Eighties and, like, early nineties in New York. Like, Times Square was not, like, uh, Disney and Marvel and, like, big box stores.

[00:01:48] Jon Chee:  So this is, you know, leave it at that. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:01:51] Michael Newton:  Yeah. It was just, like, a much grittier place. But in many ways, as a result, actually, it was much more real. And I had an awesome experience growing up there. Grew up on the Lower West Side in a neighborhood called Chelsea. It's actually very cool. We lived in an apartment that had formerly been a parking garage.

[00:02:06] Jon Chee:  Oh, yeah.

[00:02:07] Michael Newton:  Yeah. Which is cool. So, actually, it was a building that had had nine stories of parking garage and then a bunch of stories on top of it that were not we actually happened to live on the nine story, so there wasn't, like, a car elevator.

[00:02:16] Jon Chee:  Oh, wow.

[00:02:17] Michael Newton:  And the house was such, uh, I could actually ride roller blades around it because it was just concrete floors, like, super open space.

[00:02:25] Jon Chee:  You almost had, like, a suburban, like, kind of, like, cul de sac experience in New York where you can actually, like, go and just, like, go outside and, like, whatever, rollerblades, skate or whatever.

[00:02:35] Michael Newton:  Yeah. I mean, it was a little different in some ways, but we you know, it's this crazy experience because my, you know, parents bought this apartment back when Chelsea was not at all what it is today, of course.

[00:02:44] Jon Chee:  Yeah. Now I just go there, and there's, like, Googleplex.

[00:02:46] Michael Newton:  Yeah. I know. It's exactly that. And, I mean, when I was there, the neighborhood was primarily Dominican and Irish, and it was just like an awesome community. And, actually, on our street, we actually had stickball games that would happen, and they just, like, shut down the street. And it was all the Dominicans kids versus the Irish kids. Yeah. And it was, like, totally good. Like, everybody was happy. It was, like, a great vibe. It was super integrated. There was an Irish bar called McManus's on the corner at, like, noon. You'd have these, like, Irish guys drinking too much and throwing up on the street. You know? And then you'd have, like, you know, the Dominican families doing their thing. And it was just this, like, wonderful community. And for me, it just got me, I think, like, really to value, like, the diversity of places and kind of the self reliance that if you can build that, it allows you just to experience so much about the world. So, like, I really I'm very proudly a New Yorker because I think New York, especially back then, was, you know, by and fair to say, unique place, but a really rare place. And it allowed me just, like, awesome experiences. And, you know, both my parents were entrepreneurs who ran small businesses. My mom was kind of in market research and always involved kind of in a lot of the consumer facing research and understanding the evolution of the consumer over time. Uh, she did a lot of work with big brands like Jaguar and Ford and companies like that. And then my dad ran a publishing company that him and a partner started, and, you know, it covered mostly, uh, tech businesses. You know, it was like telecommunications and networking and businesses like that. And what was cool about both these businesses, my dad's business a little bit more than my mom's because my mom was kinda more client facing and she was on the road a lot. But with my dad's business, I got to, like, be hands on all the time. I mean, I used to spend, like, afternoons after school. I mean, I, like, I I can, like, feel the paper cuts still because I used to, like, be folding you know, this is a long time ago. There was, like, no Internet, no nothing. So we would be, like, folding, like, you know, things to mail out to subscribers, and there was, like, whole, like, shipping room. This is in Manhattan. Like, you never would do this, but we used to, like, run shipping and distribution from 12 West 20 First Street. And, like, I mean, I just work there all the time, and I you know, it was just, like, very much part of my upbringing and getting exposed to that. And because it was very much, uh, like, a nitty gritty kind of business, it was awesome. I got to do everything. And that really got me exposed really early on to technology because they focused a lot on technology and just got exposed to the early days of, like, the rise of the PC world. I remember in our house, we had all these what were called trash eighties, which were, like, early computers um, that ran, like, MS DOS and, you know, like, figuring out how to work and learn and move on those things. And so I got this exposure through being in a place in New York and through having this kind of, like, privilege of having parents who are running businesses that I could kinda be a part of that I think I was really fortunate and with a really international background and a family that, like, really appreciated opportunities to travel and explore different places or whatever. It was just, like, a really great upbringing. And, I mean, actually, the best thing about it is, like, I have the most amazing family. My dad's certifiably crazy and eccentric in the most wonderful way. Uh, my mom is, like, the most graceful, intelligent woman. They are, you know, who they are, and they're wonderful. And they just created an environment for us where we were super secure, And it allowed us to do a lot of very interesting things and put ourselves out there. And I had some really hard things. I had some hard moments at school. I remember that. But, you know, they supported us, and they pushed us through. And we were always, you know, really fortunate to kinda have that really core kind of rock of an experience. And, you know, my family at the time certainly wasn't super wealthy or anything, but they really valued education. I got to go to great schools in New York City. We were fortunate to have the ability to go visit family in Australia and do other things and whatnot. And, you know, as my parents' career grow, frankly, their earning power and whatnot did grow too. And so I was just, like, really lucky to be in a place where I think you could be who you wanted to be, be supportive, but also really be pushed to be like, yeah. You're 12, and you wanna take the train

[00:06:42] Jon Chee:  to go yeah. Go. Like Yeah. You know?

[00:06:45] Michael Newton:  We joke my you know, because my sister and I now talk about now that we're parents. My mom, we used to say, like, she used to parent by neglect.

[00:06:53] Jon Chee:  Yeah.

[00:06:54] Michael Newton:  But she was just a busy person running her company, and she was always there for us when we needed, like, my mom is you know, to this day, but she wouldn't coddle us. You know, there's no helicopter parenting at all. It was like street smarts, go figure it out, holding ourselves accountable. Like, if we need help, we could ask for help, and we would get help. And I had a pretty bad speech impediment when I was a kid, so I did a lot of speech therapy. And, like, you know, that was something I remember very vividly my mom really supporting me with and my dad really supporting me with and whatnot. But at the same time, it was, okay. Like, this is a problem. Like, we're gonna go solve it. Let's go solve it. You gotta do your with the orbit, and it's not gonna hold us back. And so I just think I've been, you know, really, really fortunate to have a starting point that probably couldn't be better. And I'm biased. Right? I love New York, but, like, I would I'm so glad I grew up there and not in a cul de sac somewhere.

[00:07:42] Jon Chee:  Yeah.

[00:07:42] Michael Newton:  And nothing against the cul de sac. Just for me, personally, like, it just you know, I took the two three every day. I went to high school in Brooklyn. Like, I used to, you know, walk my butt down to the train, take the train, and you would see everything. And I'd be early morning basketball practice, late night working on the newspaper, you know, like, doing all the things you do growing up. But you just did it in New York City. You did it in a place where just, like, everything was there and everything was happening. Uh, and so I really feel very grateful for that, and I think it has definitely impacted me who I am. I mean, I still root for the best sports team in the world. Uh, you know? So no bias there, of course. I mean, the Knicks haven't won a championship in my entire life, but that's okay.

[00:08:18] Jon Chee:  Yeah.

[00:08:19] Michael Newton:  No. But I'm I'm just like a very proud New Yorker. I think it's a unique place. Now interesting, I don't live there right now. Right? Like, have chosen not to live there. We can talk about that as we get going. But growing up in Manhattan, growing up in that time in Manhattan with the kinda international but really, like, just wonderful and very stable family, I think just gave me so many advantages. And it's something that I'm now obviously trying to replicate and provide with my kids as well, uh, albeit in a different environment and a different time. But, no, it's definitely kinda very much affected who I am in many, many ways.

[00:08:50] Jon Chee:  There's so many different directions, strength I wanna kinda tug on. You talked about the Australian mafia in New York. So my friend who lives in New York, his wife is Australian, and we just go to a dinner somewhere. The it's, like, just ad hoc. We'll be, like, somehow another Australian will be in the restaurant, and they somehow just, like, know each other or they just, like I just hear, like, an oi oi, like, across

[00:09:14] Michael Newton:  Yeah. Oi oi. Oi oi.

[00:09:16] Jon Chee:  Yeah. Just across the room, just, like, the spidey senses start tingling, and then immediately, they just, like, connect. And I'm just like, what the heck? We just decided to go grab a bite, and now they're somehow

[00:09:29] Michael Newton:  And you can imagine it was still in, like, twenty twenty five. Right? But back in 1972, it was a smaller world back then. Yeah. And so, like, that mafia, I think, was even even stronger. And the reason how my parents met was, like, they were a friend of a friend, and my dad actually went to go pick my mom up at the airport as, like, a favor. And, you know, there's a cute story, you know, associated with that and whatnot, but it's very much a tight community.

[00:09:51] Jon Chee:  It's real. Like

[00:09:52] Michael Newton:  Yeah. It's real. Yeah. But those communities exist in so many places in so many ways. Right? And I see that now whether it be now here living in Europe or, yeah, just, you know, through different connections. It's it's amazing how big a world we live in yet how small it is.

[00:10:06] Jon Chee:  That's the thing that always surprises me. It's just like especially with the access to, like, technology and the Internet and everything, you're just like, Jesus. This is like it is overwhelming how much information, how many people can, like there's so much overload, and then things like this. You're just like No. Oh, like, holy moly. Like, random restaurant in New York. We somehow get connected.

[00:10:26] Michael Newton:  Of course. Yeah. Well, it's really tiny. I mean, it's a huge physical place. It's tiny in terms of its community.

[00:10:31] Jon Chee:  Yeah. I love that. And I think hearing about your upbringing in New York is really interesting to me because I think it sounds like life came at you fast, and you got basically a crash course on so many different levels. Because I think, for me, I grew up in Berkeley, which is by no means a proper city. Like like Wow. I I live in SF now, and, like, you know, when I when I talk to my New York friends, like, it's like city lite. It's like diet city. It's like diet city. It's not like it's probably a proper city. But I can imagine it's kind of like school of hard knocks, which I think is really interesting because I think whenever I think about on the lessons that I've learned that I carry with me to this day, it's always a school of hard knocks moments that, like, really it kind of gets into your DNA or, like, the scar tissue, and then it just, like you know? And you can't teach that in a book, really. I mean

[00:11:26] Michael Newton:  No. I'm very much in an extra with my kids all the time. I'm like, how do I empower you guys to go have difficult situations, to be uncomfortable so that you can learn from it and, you know, become then very self sufficient, right, and, you know, really create the options for yourself. And that's something I push with my kids all the time. I'm like, you wanna be self sufficient. You wanna create these options for yourself. And I think what was awesome about New York I grew up in New York in a time, again, very different than it is today and certainly bus safe and a lot of things. But, frankly, I grew up in a very safe environment and with tons of support. So it was, like, the best of both worlds because I was able to, you know, kinda go do that explore and take advantage of the city or whatnot, but I also came back to, like, a super safe, loving, like, supportive place. And so I don't wanna ever mislead to be like, oh, I grew up in nitty gritty New York. There's a lot of people who really did. I grew up in, like, comfortable middle class New York City. And I think, you know, because of the nature of my parents, because of, you know, the nature of what that city can offer, like, it really was a great mix. And, yeah, I saw some crazy stuff happen. Yeah. Stuff that you would not I mean, stories we can tell. I mean, some violence, certainly, just some chaos, you know, fights, you name it, uh, lots of, like, exposure drug use and stuff like that. And I think I just always came back, and luckily, I had a family. I was like, oh, yeah. We could talk about these things. You know? We can understand them. Uh, I didn't feel the need necessarily to try to, like, hide things or prove myself in that way because it was kind of always there. And, you know, my parents were frankly really open about their background and what they'd experienced in New York having been there through the seventies, eighties, you know, and whatnot. And so, uh, I don't know. It's like a really super, uh, setup, uh, one that I feel, you know, really grateful for. And, you know, I will it's amazing. My both my parents, you know, are still super healthy and doing great. They kinda split their time now. They're not in New York City all the time. But, you know, we're still New Yorkers through and through.

[00:13:16] Jon Chee:  Absolutely.

[00:13:16] Michael Newton:  Even my sister, she's moved to Boston, really sold out. Married a guy from Boston too, uh, but he's amazing. She's amazing. But, like, I think even there, my sister is still, like I think she's a New Yorker still too, and she very proudly still has a 917 cell phone number. So There we go. There we go. Yeah.

[00:13:31] Jon Chee:  Yeah. You better not give that up.

[00:13:33] Michael Newton:  No. Exactly.

[00:13:35] Jon Chee:  And I I thinking about your your parents' businesses too, like, you know, publishing and, like, market research, and that's, like, where you wanna be to. Publishing, like, in New York at that time is, like, perfectly situated. So you were probably just, like, going. I'm just trying to put myself and, like, think about your experience of, like, early entrepreneurship. And I think those kinds of things too, just like getting your hands dirty, like, you can't really teach that. It's kind of like you just gotta do. And I think about, like, team building. Right? And you're talking about parenting and, like, I'm not a parent yet, but I it's like when I think about building resilience and self sufficiency within a team, it's kind of similar in the sense where you're like, you can micromanage the process, like, but then you don't develop that resilience or kind of, like, self sufficiency. As a leader or a parent, you kind of have, like obviously, don't let someone just, like, proverbially, like, kill themselves by, like,

[00:14:27] Michael Newton:  right in

[00:14:28] Jon Chee:  front of a proverbial bus, but it's kind of like this thing where you kinda, like, have to enable people to be autonomous and learn from their own mistakes.

[00:14:36] Michael Newton:  I totally agree. And whether it be at work with our company, and we'll get into that later, or with my kids now, like, the lessons from my childhood of kind of creating an environment of safety where you can kinda be vulnerable, get the help you need, and ask for help. But then, frankly, be expected to go do it yourself and be self sufficient to fail and, like, figure stuff out. And, you know, if it was, you know, needed, my parents would come and say my butt or whatnot. But most of the time, they're like, nope. We'll figure it out. You know? And we did. And that could have been, like, super just logistical things, like, you know, figuring out how to get to places in the city and do that, or it was, like, some job I was doing or, you know, some experience with friends or whatnot. And so it's a little bit of that kind of benign neglect thing.

[00:15:17] Jon Chee:  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:15:18] Michael Newton:  And so with the company, I always look now, and it's like, well, it the vast majority of decisions in business on a day to day basis are frankly and I know the business always talked about, like, one way door and two way door decisions and stuff like that. The vast majority of decisions are two way door decisions that aren't actually that impactful. Right? And so I try to, you know, create situations where inside the company, we're empowering people to make those decisions. And if they learn from it, great. If we have to fail and you know? Like, yeah, we always wanna manage that. We wanna provide the resources and the conditions so that people will be successful. But, like, I'm always pushing the business to be bolder, right, to make bolder bets and to not be afraid about the failing. If there's places where it's, like, mission critical one way door decision, yeah, we're gonna pay a lot of attention to what we need to do about that, but those are frankly pretty rare. And now that I work with a bunch of really high functioning PhDs who are super intelligent and whatnot, but they come from a very different world. And so, you know, now it's like, okay. How do we, you know, create them and create that environment a different way? And so it's always something I'm trying to think about. And, honestly, John, one of the reasons we moved to Europe, moved to The Netherlands was to create an environment where our kids could do that more because I think that environment I had in New York is much, much rarer now. You know? You hear about these stories everywhere, just like helicopter parenting, you know, the parent who gets arrested because they allow their kids to go to the grocery store, and you're just like, what is going on?

[00:16:35] Jon Chee:  Yeah. Yeah.

[00:16:36] Michael Newton:  You know? And, you know, I have an 11 year old and a nine year old. They go all over Amsterdam by themselves. Right? They go to their football practices. They go to the grocery store. They go to their friends' houses. They have their bikes. They go. Right? And I know this is a community where people understand that and they support that. And, frankly, if something went wrong, people would help them too. Yeah. I mean, it doesn't hurt. It's a super safe place because of this as well, so you feel comfortable doing that. But, like, no. It's one of the things we wanted to do because we didn't want our kids to grow up in, you know, a bubble. And we wanted them to, like, have to deal with some hard things at hard times and, you know, build that resilience, build that grit.

[00:17:11] Jon Chee:  Yep. It's It's funny thinking about that too because, like, I had a similar upbringing where my the kind of, like, general neglect is because they're just super busy. But there's, like, yeah, just don't get arrested, like and, like, please don't, like, please don't break the law. Just, like, otherwise, do your thing.

[00:17:26] Michael Newton:  Like Yeah. Go figure it out. Yeah. No. I mean, I think benign neglect is, like, a legitimate parental, like, approach.

[00:17:32] Jon Chee:  You know? Like, doesn't get enough attention. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, shout out, benign neglect. I'm like, shout out, but, yeah, shout out. So you talked about going to high school in in Brooklyn. And as you were continuing your educational journey, take us back to, like, how you're thinking about, like, as you're approaching university. Like, were there places that you were like, I need to go here. This or, like, were you kind of, you know, broadly interested? Tell us about that.

[00:17:57] Michael Newton:  Well, so let me take a little bit of a step back to tee it up a little bit. So at first, I went to this, uh, school in New York called Grace Church. Grace Church is a great school, Lower East Side Of Manhattan, a tenth in Broadway, a very kind of formal place when I was there. I had to wear it was, like, the most I ever got dressed up in my entire life. I'm like even at work, I've never had to get that dress up. I used to wear, like, a coat, a little tie, like, all this. And and it's a cool school, but it was not the place for me. It was very structured, kind of didn't promote academic curiosity or, like, allow you to explore your own interest. And it just I wasn't happy there for a number of reasons. My sister, who's two years older than me, this school ended in eighth grade. So when she was looking for her next school, my parents were they realized, you know, they're like, this isn't working anymore. So I was able to switch, and we just did it at the same time. And so at the end of sixth grade, I left early and switched it to a new school at seventh grade. And that's where I went to this school called Saint Anne's, which is in Brooklyn in New York. If the school I just described, Ray Church, is on this end, Saint Anne's, is, like, so far this way, like, you can't even, like, put it on the goddamn spectrum. Yeah. Saint Anne's actually, when I was there, it was described as the most liberal school in America. I mean, it was this, like, liberal bastion. And the school had its problems and does have its problems. And if you Google it, you can see some of those. But, like, I went to the school then that was essentially just like an academic garden of curiosity. It was like a light switch went off. It was awesome. And, you know, I went to this place where I was just able to explore all these, like, things that I found interesting and had people who are encouraged it. And it was really a community that was built around cultivating the interests of kids, and it was run much more like a university. And, actually, most of the professors and stuff when I was there at the time had big university teachers, and there was just this kind of, like it's a really cool place. I think it's probably lost a little bit of that luster, some of which isn't a bad thing because, again, some of the stuff was crazy. And I can tell some crazy stories about high school. People would, like, literally blow their mind, um, about shit that happened at my high school. But the environment that I was put in there and that my parents were kind enough to help me find and whatnot was just, like, a game changer for me. And so I went and just, like, exploded in curiosity, and that place allowed you to just kinda do whatever you want. I mean, there's one typical way of kind of giving you a sense of what the school is like. So they didn't call it, like, GM or PE. They called it recreational arts. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So like, you know? And my kid you not, my first day in seventh grade, I have an art class, and it was a figure drawing class, and we had a nude male model. In seventh grade? In seventh grade. Yeah. And so it was just like a whole different world. Right? But it was, again, an awesome place because it allowed you and it kinda forced you to, you know, push yourself. And, certainly, there were kids that ever took advantage of it who just, like, didn't do the work or whatnot. But the vast majority of kids were like, wow. Okay. How do I go learn about ancient Greece? Because I love that, and there's an amazing teacher who's teaching it. For me, I got really deep into kinda government and civic society and, like, journalism as well, a little bit informed by my father and stuff like that. And St. Andrews was just this place that really allowed me to be who I wanted to be, but also really pushed you. The expectations were super high. And so, you know, when I was at kinda starting to look at university, like most private schools in New York City, and I'm sure it's even more bananas today. But it's, you know, it's like a good college factory. You know? Yep. So they're like and we didn't get grades. There were no grades, so we got comments. So I had, like, a stack of comments, like, this big. And so you had to, like, apply to, you know, university schools in different ways. But I'd done well, and I take my SATs, and everything was pretty good. And so I was applying to pretty good schools and whatnot. And when it came down to it, I essentially was making a choice between three places. It was between Dartmouth. It was between University of Pennsylvania, uh, and between Duke. And so, like, awesome options to have. Like, you know, can't complain. Like, stellar. And I just, you know, visited these places, and I was at Duke, and I was like, I should go here because Duke is clearly awesome. It's warm. It's this amazing school. Like, you know, like, this is the smart money choice.

[00:22:00] Jon Chee:  Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:22:01] Michael Newton:  Like, amazing sports program, like, incredible environment, have friends who've gone there, like, everything. But then I visited Dartmouth, and I was just like, no. This is the place to go back. And it was interesting because I purposely not wanted to go to a to a very, like, urban school. I thought it was worthwhile having had a very urban upbringing to go to a different place. And one of my thesis was, you know, you go to a place where, like, the school is the environment. You know? So your friends go to NYU. A lot of kids went to NYU, super programs, like, all some university. But, you know, frankly, our campus was Manhattan, and it was like you know, you weren't necessarily, like, in a college experience. When you go to Dartmouth in Hanover, New Hampshire, like, for better or worse, you are, like, in a bloody college experience.

[00:22:40] Jon Chee:  Yeah.

[00:22:40] Michael Newton:  And I loved it. And it was just, like, awesome. And still, like, so many of, like, my best friends actually, in a couple of weeks, I'm gonna be back in The States and visit a bunch of friends, and we're gonna we always kinda get together. It's, like, in that community. But what I really wanted was to find a place that had those dynamics of a real university, a very kind of, you know, tight knit community, but then carried on that kind of academic garden experience. And Dartmouth is also because it's not actually a big university. It's really a college. And so it does have grad schools. Right? It has a business school, and it has, you know, an engineering school and other things like that in grad programs, but the focus is on teaching. And so it was a continuation of what Saint Anne's had to offer me. Frankly, a much less, like, crazy experience that I had in high school because it was, like, a big university institution, but I was, like, a pig in shit at Dartmouth. Like, just loved that place from day one. My people, incredible professors, the opportunity to explore what you really wanted to do. And my parents, again, in the way that they had before, they weren't like, okay. Well, what classes are you taking? Are you gonna make sure you get this? I mean, I don't think they even looked. You know, they're just like, bye. Yeah. Bye. Yeah.

[00:23:46] Jon Chee:  This is great. We have more room now. Like Yeah.

[00:23:49] Michael Newton:  Exactly. Like, yeah, we've kinda done our part. So, like, you go Yeah. You can

[00:23:52] Jon Chee:  just go on. I love that approach of, like, being very explicit and seeking out, like, a different kind of you talk about NYU. So it's like, that's just Manhattan. But you're seeking out these kind of, like, outside of your bubble experience, and I love that because, you know, usually ends up being a really enriching experience, um, and seeing what else is out there. And, yeah, it was a great experience. You met a great a bunch of great people. Were there any kind of, like, mentors or people who took you under their wing or inspired you while you're at Dartmouth? It could be a professor. It could be a friend. It could be a colleague. Anybody.

[00:24:23] Michael Newton:  Yeah. No. No. I mean, lot of friends who are just amazing people have gone on to do different things. But what was cool is if you've, like, just put in, like, a tiny bit of effort, the professors were just, like, so open and amazing to you. So there was two professors in particular who, like, really impacted me. I chose to be a government major, did a bunch of work in econ as well, did a bunch of history and stuff as well. But, again, like, kinda civil society journalism, what drives things. Like, I found government and international relations in particular, like, super interesting. And there was a guy who was a professor there. I think he's still a professor, not at Dartmouth. He's been at Michigan. I haven't looked him up in a long time. Um, but he was this guy named, uh, professor Alan Stamm, and he was, like, a unconventional professor. I think he had, like, a pretty rough upbringing himself and, like, kinda had fallen out, got his, like, shit together. And he actually became if I remember it all correct, then I may not, um, he became, like, a US green he's, like, army ranger or, like, badass dude. Woah. And he had, like I remember he had, like, scars and stuff. Like, he had seen combat in a lot of places. And he had then after he'd gotten out of service, he'd gone to Cornell, and he'd become a very, very good crew rower there, uh, and, like, excelled at Cornell and done very well. So, like, somebody who really got his shit together. And then he was, like, one of the younger professors at Dartmouth, and he was teaching, you know, a bunch of international relations, you know, stuff that involved military history and thought and whatnot, especially considering his background. And, one, it was just you know, as a college kid, you look up and you're like, this guy's a cool guy. Yeah. You know, he was like he was just like a good dude. You know? And he was like the type of guy who was, like, building his own house on the weekends. And I'm probably misremembering it, but I think his, like, wife was, like, you know, gorgeous. You know? He he was the archetype. You know? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:26:00] Jon Chee:  Yeah. Yeah.

[00:26:00] Michael Newton:  And so he had all that, but he was actually just a really thoughtful, good guy, and he really cared about us. And he cared about what he was teaching and how he built, you know, the people who would help go. And Dartmouth has a big tradition of sending people to the horn service and stuff like that. But he always was, you know, the obviously, the academic piece, but he was always very focused on, like, what does it take to be successful in this world? And he taught me something that I still use to this day, and he called it the triangle of success. I actually have expanded a little bit. I call it the diamond of success. And it sounds a little silly, like it's kinda cheesy name. But, you know, his whole point was, like, if you're looking at your success, you need skills, knowledge, and you need attitude. And he always pointed to and this has, like, deeply impacted me throughout my whole life, but he always pointed to, like, attitude as being the thing that made the difference. Since I by the fourth vertex of the kind of diamond I've added is team leadership, just kind of being more specific about that, working at a big corporation, leading teams, and whatnot. I mean, obviously, team leadership was a big deal for him because he, like, led battalions or whatever, um, was, like, this kick ass guy. But I actually remember I was on a committee our senior year where we put together, like, the class day experience, experience, and you had to, like, get a professor to be elected to speak the day before graduation. And I really advocated for and got Alan Stam to be our speaker. And I'm sure I'm misremembering the story. I'm sure I have now, like, totally glorified this in my head. But he spoke about the triangle of success, you know, whatnot. And I kinda remember him being like, so you guys are all thinking, like, hot shit kids who went to Dartmouth. Right? You're about to graduate. Congratulations. Your parents are all here. They spent a shitload of money, like, you know, all that stuff. But he kind of was like, most of you don't have the dime. You guys have skills of knowledge, but do you have the attitude you need to be successful? And I remember it being, like, a bit of a pin drop moment. And, again, I'm sure I'm glorifying it, and I'm gonna continue to glorify it because it's a better story that helps me more in my life. My dad always says don't let the facts get in the way of good stories.

[00:27:55] Jon Chee:  Yeah.

[00:27:56] Michael Newton:  But, I mean, it really him and that has, like, really impacted me. And so everything I do actually, like, with my kids, I'm always like, attitude is the most important thing, and you can control it. And when you have an 11 year old girl, like, you don't always think you can control it. Let's put it that

[00:28:10] Jon Chee:  way. Yeah.

[00:28:10] Michael Newton:  But just through life, like, when I'm thinking about hiring people at work, I literally break out this framework, and I'm like, okay. How are they doing on skills, knowledge? What's the story? You know, how team leadership? But I'm like, if their attitude isn't good Yeah. Like, because you just aren't gonna achieve anything in life if you don't wanna just be bloody grateful for where you are, but then bring an attitude, whether it be, you know, you're giving energy, you know, you're concerned for other people, whatnot. But, like, if you bring an attitude, you can just overcome so many things. And so I actually think about it in this way. It's like attitude is by far number 60% of what you're gonna wait once you're, you know, looking at somebody. And, you know, then you think about it. You're like, skills? Okay. Important. Depending on your what you're doing, people leadership are important. But knowledge, especially in 2025, knowledge is, like, the least important of any of them. Because if you got good attitudes, you got skills, like, you can go learn anything. Right? And you can go figure it out. And, actually, that's a little bit of a testament that we'll talk about. Like, I did a lot of science growing up. Like, we didn't talk about that a bunch. You know, I did some cool stuff in high school and whatnot. But, like, you know, I haven't worked in a biotech company. I've been leading one now for the last two years. Like, my journey to biotech is very different than a lot of people you talk to. But I think, again, it's like, how can you bring that attitude? How could you, you know, then work through it? So Al Stam, like, definitely had a huge impact on my life, and maybe this podcast will make its way to him in some way. I should probably look him up again. But I always think about him, and I always think about this framework. And then there was a second guy. Well, I will not hit him the same way, but there was a guy named professor Gene Garthwaite who was a just an absolutely intellectual savant about the Middle East. And so I took a class on kind of the history of the Israeli and the Palestine conflict. He had spent a ton of time in Iran. He was a Persian scholar. He spoke Persian, like, you know, like, crazy stuff. And he just made this stuff come to life. And so he didn't impact me in the same way Alan, you know, Stan did, but he just, like, made you realize how interesting and diverse and, like, you know, incredible the planet is and what everything is. And, like, my little life between Manhattan and, like, Hanover, New Hampshire, even though super international and stuff, like, you just don't know and just don't understand how different, you know, just like life is for people. And, you know, obviously, uh, half my family's Jewish, half my family's Catholic. Like, had this whole interesting, like, thinking about what's going on there, and I'm sure he's no longer alive. He was quite old when I was there. But, like, I can imagine I would, like, love to call him and hear what he thinks about what's going on in the world today because he was truly, like, this just savant in that space. He was super well respected, you know, very much in that kinda, like, British tradition of, like, people who, like, went and got an academic and stuff. He'd been educated in The UK, I believe, and everything. So it's, like, just a couple people like that who really made a huge difference and carried forward a lot of, I think, who I became.

[00:30:53] Jon Chee:  What an experience, and what are, like, two pillars to have during your during your college experience. And I think I actually really agree with the triangle, but also now Diamond are saying it exceed us to hire for attitude, train for aptitude.

[00:31:07] Michael Newton:  Yeah. That's a good one.

[00:31:08] Jon Chee:  Yeah. Attitude is so important. Like, it's so important. It's like what gets you to, like, run through walls. Like, inevitably, there will be a wall. And do you want to run through it, or are you willing to? It's hard Absolutely. It's hard to make someone want to do that. And it's on them to it comes from within. And it's like for externally, it's hard super hard to try to force someone into that mode because it's gotta come from them. And so I think it's, like, incredibly important. And you're right. I think he can go on YouTube and learn anything. Do you like Yeah. Like, you can literally learn anything. Like, the information is

[00:31:46] Michael Newton:  Oh, yeah. Like, every of the best lecture at Harvard or MIT or Stanford or whatever, they put that stuff online, and people don't have the ability to focus and commit to it. Right? Like so that's not the problem. It's the attitude that's difficult thing.

[00:31:59] Jon Chee:  Absolutely. It also should feel liberating. It's like this information has been democratized. It is out there. You just gotta wanna go consume it and

[00:32:07] Michael Newton:  No doubt.

[00:32:07] Jon Chee:  And learn it.

[00:32:08] Michael Newton:  Yeah. But what I know I struggle with is I haven't figured out a way to, like, teach attitude. Me neither. Yeah. I know in myself, like, there are moments when I'm like, okay. My attitude sucks. I can change it. Because the grit side that you just talked about is probably the most important piece of attitude. But just like the everyday, like, hey. We're at the airport. The plane's late. Like, this shit you know, whatever. It's like, you can either be a little, like, sour pussy batter. You could be like, like, yeah. Let's make, you know, like, lemonade out of lemons. And I think, generally, I'm a pretty I have to be, like, positive attitude person, but there's moments where I have to catch myself, and I'm like, okay. And so I could push myself and, like, change the framework, but I'm really, like, with my kids, I'm really just like, how do I promote this attitude piece? And, I mean, I literally like, I created a PowerPoint slide with a diamond of success for my daughter, and it was, like, on the wall of her room. And, like, we talk about it and, like, with her football team. I'm sorry. Soccer for all the Americans. Um, and, like, how do we really help promote that? Because I just want her to understand, you know, okay, like, you are the driver of your own life. Right? And frankly, like, you can go push and be super successful, and maybe that makes you happy. But a lot of people does it, right, in the kind of societal way of how we think about success. But if you had a great attitude and you just decided that you wanted to be a baker in, like, you know, wherever, like, great. Right? You can have a great attitude, help your community have, like, a wonderful life. And, uh, it's just really interesting to me about how we don't, as a society, kind of value and understand that enough. And as we see with my kids, it's just something I'm you know? And they're very different. Like, my kids are super different. And so you're just like it's, you know, it's a very different world for each of them, and you gotta think about that. But it's something I'm always trying to hold myself accountable to and trying to promote, you know, and but in hiring, as you said, I love your expression. I'm gonna steal it. Right? Because if you're building a company, it's like, well, I have the opportunity not to have to try to train this. Like, I'll just hire for it. You know? With my kid, you know, it's a different story. Like, that's, like, their journey we gotta, like, work on together.

[00:34:04] Jon Chee:  Yeah. Absolutely. And I it's funny because, like, I still do the screening calls, but people don't know it's me. Like, I do the screeners just to do the vibe check on the attitude, and it's elbow grease. It's like, it it is definitely you know, we gotta get through a number of screeners to find the one. But, yeah, it it is really helpful. Just, like, before we loop in, like, everybody for the kind of, like, technicals and deep dives, it's like, can I gut check the attitude here? Like and then it's a good litmus test.

[00:34:34] Michael Newton:  Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, I think about it like it's necessary, but it's not sufficient.

[00:34:38] Jon Chee:  Not sufficient. Yeah.

[00:34:39] Michael Newton:  Yeah. Because, like, you you still need to hire somebody. It's like, okay. I'm hiring somebody who's a programmer. Okay. They have to have, you know, certain skills. Right? And what the knowledge piece again, they can figure out, I think, a lot of times. But that's a good way to put it. Like, that will assess a little bit of, like, okay. That gets you to where you need to be, then let's go.

[00:34:54] Jon Chee:  Yeah. Am I gonna, like, bring in like, in your case, like, am I gonna bring in the PhDs to just grill them on the science, like, on this next round? Because, like, their time is super valuable. Like, I need to make sure that, like, this person, do they check that first attitude box? I'm not, like, perfect by any means because, like, I still haven't been able to pin it down exactly.

[00:35:13] Michael Newton:  But Yeah. It's hard. It's hard. If you're a good interviewer and whatnot Oh, yeah. I mean, you know that just you know, you bring energy to anything. Right? Like, that's just gonna help you. And so I think reference checks generally on people are worthless because, like, unless you have, like, a truly, like, unique way of getting to, like, a truly reliable reference check. But a reference check where you just be like, so tell me, like, is this person fun?

[00:35:37] Jon Chee:  You know? Like, do

[00:35:38] Michael Newton:  they bring energy? Like, do they participate in stuff? Like, did they you know, stuff that, like, doesn't necessarily, like, tell you if they're not they're kinda quote, unquote good at their job, but, like, helps you understand, like, the whole silly thing, like and then Hamilton stole it. Right? Yeah. Well, George Bush, I could go have a beer with that guy.

[00:35:53] Jon Chee:  Yeah. Yeah.

[00:35:53] Michael Newton:  You know? Like, Alexander Hamilton. Oh, you know? I could have a beer with that guy.

[00:35:57] Jon Chee:  Yeah. Yeah.

[00:35:57] Michael Newton:  You know? And so it's like I think it's really important in life. And for me, it's like I wanna be the guy who's always, like you know? And I I I'm obviously, I'm an extroverted guy or not, but I'm not the guy who's, like, at the center of every party all the time or whatnot, but different ones. It's like, how do you bring in a great attitude? So that's super important. Alan Stan was the one who really, like, taught me that and labeled it in a way that was incredibly valuable.