2 Identity Crises, 1 Mission: From Broken Shoulder to Biotech Career | Nicole Paulk (Part 1/4)

[00:00:06] Intro: Welcome to The Biotech Startups Podcast by Excedr. Join us as we speak with first-time founders, serial entrepreneurs, and experienced investors about the challenges and triumphs of running a biotech startup from pre-seed to IPO with your host, Jon Chee. Our guest today is Nicole Paulk, founder, CEO, and president of SIREN Biotechnology, a company pioneering universal AAV immunogene therapy, combining AAV gene therapy and cytokine immunotherapy into a single modality to fight solid tumor cancers. She holds a PhD in viral gene therapy and regenerative medicine from OHSU and completed her postdoctoral fellowship in human gene therapy at Stanford. At SIREN, Nicole leads development of an off-the-shelf platform that delivers vectorized engineered cytokines directly into tumors, enabling long-term and controllable local cytokine expression while avoiding the systemic toxicities that have derailed cytokine therapies in the past. With a recently cleared FDA IND advancing the company to clinical stage and backing from Lux Capital, Nicole's journey from academic gene therapy pioneer to cancer-focused biotech CEO demonstrates how a bold scientific bet sparked unexpectedly during the COVID-19 pandemic can redefine an entire treatment modality, making this a conversation you won't want to miss. Over the next four episodes, Nicole shares how growing up as a scrappy farm kid in the Pacific Northwest shaped her competitive drive and grit. A Craigslist job posting that unknowingly dropped her into one of the country's most celebrated stem cell labs and a summer in Africa that forced a complete rethinking of her career path. Today, we'll hear about Nicole's upbringing as a hippie farm kid in the Pacific Northwest, a lumberjack dad who raised her like a boy and centered childhood around competitive athletics before shoulder injuries ended her volleyball career at 18 and triggered her first identity crisis. We'll hear about working odd jobs to survive, swim lessons, kickboxing classes, deli shifts, and crabbing in Puget Sound before stumbling into her first research position at an ag school, not for love of science, but because she needed a paycheck. Lastly, we'll hear about the summer in Kenya and Tanzania that convinced her she couldn't be a doctor and the offhand comment from a chemistry professor that redirected her entire career toward a PhD. Without further ado, let's dive into part one of our conversation with Nicole Paulk.

[00:04:14] Jon Chee: Nicole, so good to see you. Thanks for coming on the podcast. Absolutely. Really looking forward to this conversation. I know we've had it on the books. I think you said, like, since, like, August. Like, a while ago.

[00:04:24] Nicole Paulk: A while ago. A while ago, I was like, who

[00:04:26] Jon Chee: is this guy? Like, what is this again?

[00:04:28] Nicole Paulk: I got an IND approved in the meantime. I got breast cancer in the meantime. That's how long it's been since we scheduled this. Yeah.

[00:04:34] Nicole Paulk: It's like, goddamn. Like, just like

[00:04:36] Jon Chee: a absolute time warp, actual lifetime. But let's turn the hands back on time. Like, what was your upbringing like? What got you into STEM? And, like, what really were some, like, pivotal kind of, like, inflection points that kind of influenced your leadership style business philosophy?

[00:04:52] Nicole Paulk: So I was not a scientist by training. I wasn't brought up to be one. I wasn't any of those things. I didn't go to snooty school. Like, I was, like, just your classic born in the dirt farm kid. My first two houses I lived in, we were off the grid. Like

[00:05:09] John Chee: Oh, cool.

[00:05:10] Nicole Paulk: Straight up. Parents, they grew up in SoCal and very much wanted to do the, like, seventies love child. Like, I wanna build my own house and, like, live off the grid. Grow my own food, man.

[00:05:20] Jon Chee: Cool.

[00:05:21] Nicole Paulk: Cool. And so it was very much more kind of a a hippie farm kid upbringing. I wasn't homeschooled. I still went to public school, but there was no, like, helicopter parenting and tiger momming or anything like that. It was just like, try to make the bus Yeah. To, like, drive you. But, like, no one was double checking. Like, did you do your homework, and is it perfect? And is every you know, very much have a good day at school. And when you came home from school, it was just like, how was your day? Cool. Very relaxed. And if there was any pressure, it was not on performing academically and certainly not in any, like, category. Like, oh my gosh. You have to be good in in science and STEM. If anything, it was more in sports. The firstborn and definitely my dad who was the lumberjack at the time was very much wanting to have a boy first and got me. So he was like, well, I'm just gonna raise her like a boy. Yeah. So sports was what was prioritized. Sports was what was given the attention, and that was, like, you know, did you watch your video? Like, you know, the compete team that you were playing against, like

[00:06:21] Jon Chee: Yeah. Game film.

[00:06:23] Nicole Paulk: You watched game film and, like, let's go outside and practice. And depending on which sport, some of it was stuff I could actually practice with him. Some of it was stuff you had to do on your own. So it was interesting because that was given so much weight, which I think actually was a good thing. Right? Learning how to both succeed on your own in something like track and field where, like, you're doing the open 100 or you're doing high jump. Like, that's all you, baby. Ain't no one gonna help you. Like, take that breath. When that gun goes off, boom. You run. There's no team in that one the way that, like, a relay is versus a team sport like soccer or volleyball and how different those dynamics are. So, like, learning how to succeed and fail on your own and learning how to succeed and fail as part of a team, I think, were super important in ways I didn't realize until much later. That frenetic pace and the scheduling of, like, oh, yeah. Even as, like, a little kid. It was not weird to, like, oh, yeah. You're gonna go to practice before school or the gym or the training facility or to go get your stuff bandaged up because you had injuries or whatever. Like, you do that before school. And then you've got, like, the midday and then you got the after school practice, and then you got the night practice, and then you got the weekend practice. And it's like got your after school team. You got, like, Junior Olympics. You got a club team. All of these different things that you're a part of and how to, like, schedule and balance your time and think through, like, what needs to be prioritized when and why. And, again, that both solo as well as team dynamic and, like, how to achieve in all of those different settings, I think, while also, ironically, being, like, an amazing academician, but without it ever having been forced. Right? Like, I was always the one setting the curve on the test and whatever, but it wasn't ever pushed or asked or expected. So for better or for worse, I think all of that very much shaped how competitive I am. My personality, my style, my everything, and all of that, whether I consciously think about it or not, certainly shapes every aspect of who I am as a person, as a friend, as a coworker, as a CEO, as a founder in someone's portfolio, as a member of society, all the things. So it wasn't until much, much later that, like, I stopped playing sports and started focusing and trying and, like, studying and thinking about STEM and about my studies and about trying to make sure that I was achieving or uncovering something or discovering something. Like, that wasn't until college.

[00:08:41] Jon Chee: Yeah. Yeah. Same.

[00:08:42] Nicole Paulk: And very late.

[00:08:43] Jon Chee: Yeah. Same. A buddy of mine just went and had a parent teacher conference. His daughter's in kindergarten, and, basically, the parent teacher conference was actual, like, critique of, like, math and social studies. And, like, I was, like, in kindergarten, I was finger painting. I was, like, finger painting and maybe, like, messing around on the playground.

[00:09:01] Nicole Paulk: Yeah. At best. At this finger paint, I was probably picking my nose.

[00:09:04] Jon Chee: Yeah. I was, like, climbing monkey bars or something.

[00:09:07] Nicole Paulk: When can I go back outside? Like, let me out. I'm like a rabid dog. I need to go run laps.

[00:09:12] Jon Chee: That's exactly and I feel like nowadays and maybe I don't have children, but my friends do. And it's just, like, that experience of being able to just, like, go and wander and do things is becoming even more and more rare.

[00:09:24] Nicole Paulk: It's an interesting, like, small town versus big city experience where I'm noticing I don't know if you, like, sense this in the ether. I can tell now when I meet someone in a way I didn't really appreciate in the past. I can kinda tell now if you grew up in a big city or you grew up out. Just out.

[00:09:45] Jon Chee: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Outside.

[00:09:46] Nicole Paulk: Whether it was wherever, but, like, you spent more time on dirt than you did on concrete. I can just sense it in both good and bad ways. It doesn't it's not necessarily, like, a positive or negative. It's just like I can sense it in all kinds of like, some ways I can articulate, in some ways I can't, but I think and I'm obviously biased because I only did one of those two upbringings, but I happen to think that that small town, whether it was farmy or not, doesn't matter. But that kind of, like, small town, like, upbringing messes with you in a good way and that, like just random example. Like, if your fence blows over on your property, right, you got, like, whatever. You got 20 acres and your fence blows over in some huge storm, there's no number you can call. You can't call the city to come help you. There's no, like, oh, there's five startups, and I'll get competing bids, and I'll call them all out. It's you, boo. At best, if you are lucky because you are a good person who treats their community well, you know, all five of your neighbors, you know, and that's all there is. Right? As long as you treated them well, they will come and help you because they know that they couldn't raise their fence if it fell. And you probably can't either, and you need their help because, like, man, laying poles is exhausting. So that, like, no one's gonna come and save you. You have to save yourself kind of attitude even though, like, that is both true and not true from the perspective of, like, community that, like, in a small town, you do come and help each other because you know how much someone needs it. Like, if a tree falls on someone's house in a big storm, you know they're gonna need help. If their fence falls over, you know they're gonna need help, and you just come. You don't wait for them to call. Like, how tacky to see your neighbor's fence fell over, and you don't just show up the next morning with donuts and coffee and be like, let's get to work, boo. Let's get it let's get it back up. Like, how tacky of you to wait for them to call. You just don't do that. You just show up. So it's like simultaneously, like, no one's gonna come save you, so you've gotta pull yourself up by your own bootstraps, but also being the type of person who will just show up for other people without waiting for them to have to beg. Like, I mentioned I'm moving, and you have a truck. I was hoping that maybe you would just offer if I can borrow the truck. Um, you know, I've been having to beg you. Like, can I borrow your truck for a couple hours from my couch? So I think growing up in a small town just changes something about how you think about yourself as an individual, but also how you think about yourself as part of a small but important community. And I think it makes for a better CEO, and I think it makes for a better company. And I don't know if it makes you a better person, but I think it definitely makes you a better CEO or at least in this world, in this market, in this moment in time. I definitely notice the people who are just like they've got a little bit more grit. There's a little bit more to them. They've got thicker skin. They're a little bit more kinda rhino than they are soft little rare unicorn flamingo, and I think it's good. I think some hardship and some struggle is good. Not just bad, but, like, up to a point, I think it's good. Like, I picked in the fields. That was, like, for four years. I mean, everyone in this one if you go up in a small farm town, like, when it's harvest season, you out there.

[00:12:47] Jon Chee: Yep.

[00:12:47] Nicole Paulk: Like, that that breaking absolutely. Like, there's manual labor, and then there's manual labor.

[00:12:54] Jon Chee: Yep.

[00:12:54] Nicole Paulk: Like, picking in the fields that humbles you about, like, the value of a dollar and how hard it is to make food that gets on your plate and, like, not taking that for granted. And you just treat people better, I think.

[00:13:05] Jon Chee: I agree. Like, I didn't grow up in a small well, I guess, Berkeley is kinda small. It's not like a proper city.

[00:13:11] Nicole Paulk: Berkeley is very big, my friend.

[00:13:12] Jon Chee: Yeah. Comparatively speaking. But yeah. But when we hire, I I do the screening calls still. But, like, something that I always, like, hone in on is if someone has exactly what you said, have done, like, hard physical work or has worked in retail or the services industry because, like, there's nothing like getting humbled and, like, you're just, like, getting screamed at by a angry customer.

[00:13:38] Nicole Paulk: Getting humbled at working for a dollar.

[00:13:40] Jon Chee: Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And that is, like, a lesson that is, like it's not something you can just, like, read in a book. It's, like, you kinda have to just, like, do it and live it. I remember working in a deli and having to, like, move crates up and down from, like, the basement up to and just, like, stock shelves and did that for many years. And getting a paycheck, I was like, man, that is not much. And, like, you're not working in a field, but it's just like it was like, I am out here just, like, carrying crates up and down there, like, all day every day. But then and nowadays, I'm like, I'm sitting at a computer in front of, like, Excel. And I'm like, oh, this is, like, luxurious.

[00:14:16] Nicole Paulk: So luxurious. I've got plants, and I've got my coffee here with me, and I've got, like, the air conditioning blowing on me. Lovely. Yeah.

[00:14:23] Jon Chee: This is great. This is, like, this is great. It sounds like you had a an upbringing that was, like, one allowed you to kind of just, like, wander and you were able to I mean, it sounds like you were playing a ton of sports. As you're approaching college stage, were you like, I need to go to a large a large city, or is it like, I want more of the kind of small community vibe? Like, where were you at at that time?

[00:14:45] Nicole Paulk: I had neither thought. My thought was just like, what in the world could I possibly afford? And I was like, oh, man. I would love to go to Stanford or Harvard or Yale or if it was just like even if I could get in, there'd be no way to afford it. I mean, there was it was just laughable. I mean, like, no Ivy League, no D1. So it was just like, alright. What can I afford? Which meant, like, in state only and probably, like, a division two school. Because there was just no way I could possibly afford. My parents had there was no, like and bless. I'm not besmirching them, but, like, there's no college fund saved up for me. Not that I think there needs to be one. I think we put this, like, crazy pressure on parents to do this.

[00:15:26] Nicole Paulk: I was

[00:15:26] Nicole Paulk: like, whatever. Like, I was fine. You don't need to. It's like, it's fine. So it was just like, okay. What in state schools? And there was, like, three D2 schools. And I was like, oh, well, this one is closest to where I live, so it won't cost as much for me to, like I won't have to move. I could just drive I could just drive to classes. So, like, I applied to precisely

[00:15:43] Jon Chee: one. Cool.

[00:15:44] Nicole Paulk: That was Western Washington University. Went there for, like, a year and had, like, inklings that I liked science, but I also liked other things. And so I wasn't like, I'm all in on this, and I'm taking these courses. It was just like your classic, like, liberal arts, bachelor of science, like, just I'm taking everything. Like, I was just any possible course in any possible department and category all over the map, trying to see, like, did anything really strike a chord? Did anything seem interesting?

[00:16:10] Jon Chee: I guess, quick question. What sport for D2 did you play?

[00:16:13] Nicole Paulk: Volleyball.

[00:16:14] Jon Chee: Cool.

[00:16:14] Nicole Paulk: And it was interesting because I only got to play for one year because I dislocated both of my shoulders four times. That is, like, one big negative of having such a focus on sports through all of your development is that you, like, get this accumulation of injury such that even as, like, an 18 year old, you become so injured that, like, you literally have to stop. And they're like, oh, you need, like, Tommy John surgery, like, the pitcher surgery because, like, I've, like, hurts my bursa sacs from dislocating my arms so many times, and your arms are, like, frozen in place and, like, can't move, and you're, like, rigid. And that was, like, kinda like the first it's like a midlife crisis, but I had it at 18. It was like, what am I gonna do? Like, who am I, and what am I gonna do, and what am I gonna be, and what is my future? Because now it's not sports. And that was, like, the first time having, like, have a come to Jesus moment and be like, what? Who am I?

[00:17:07] Jon Chee: Yep.

[00:17:07] Nicole Paulk: And what do I do now? And if you stop playing, right, you lose your scholarship. I'm just being like, uh, how am I gonna make rent and pay tuition Yep. Yep. And feed myself. Oh my god.

[00:17:19] John Chee: Shit.

[00:17:20] Nicole Paulk: So, like, very, like, quick panic. And for a long time, I had taught at a gym. So in addition to all the sports I was doing, I was also, like, a personal trainer, and I, like, taught kickboxing classes, and I was a yoga instructor, and I taught swim lessons. And as if anyone had never met me and didn't know already from just the five minutes we've been talking, like, I have a lot of energy. I still do. I'm still like a five year old just in a 42 year old's bag of skin, but just, like, this infinite amount of energy. So it's like, I just I have to be busy all day long. So I, like, spent more time at the gym doing all of that stuff to try to, like, earn more, but, like, you get paid by, like, the hour. So it's like an hour of

[00:17:53] Jon Chee: swim lessons. Many hours.

[00:17:55] Nicole Paulk: There's not so many more hours of swim lessons that you can do or more yoga classes you can teach. Like, they can't, like, infinitely up your hours. And so I was like, alright. So even though I was getting paid really well, like, as back in the day, I was making, like, $25 an hour. But, you know, you'd work, like, an hour. Yep. That's, like, all they could give you at this little small town gym. They're like, well, you can teach one more lesson maybe next weekend. They're like, otherwise

[00:18:18] John Chee: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:18:19] Nicole Paulk: Give me more hours. And so I started working at there was, like, a little deli right off the library up at Western and, like, it paid nothing. It was, like, minimum wage, which whatever that was back then. I don't even know. Dollars. But one of the things was while you were on shift at the deli, like, making smoothies and sandwiches and prepackaged salads, stuff like that, while you were on shift, you could eat for free. It's like Same, dude. Stuff. So I was just like,

[00:18:42] Nicole Paulk: oh my god.

[00:18:42] Jon Chee: That was the same.

[00:18:44] Nicole Paulk: Like, charge myself Yeah. On all the food that they like, all these, like, prepackaged, like, PBJs. Yeah. Little package sandwiches and protein bars and smoothies, and I would, like, put extra protein powder in the smoothie, and then I would, like, stuff my backpack with as much as it could fit.

[00:19:00] Jon Chee: Dude, the same experience. Exact same experience.

[00:19:03] Nicole Paulk: And, like, that's how I ate, because I had no I mean, I was just so broke. Also, I'm from the Pacific Northwest. I'm a Pacific Northwest girl. So, like, like, a true Pacific Northwesterner, what do you do when you don't have money to eat? It's only $25 to get a fishing license. And so, like, a good Pacific Northwestern, I got my fishing license, and I would, like, go out on the weekend and, like, either, like, go crabbing out in the bay, and, like, you get your big bucket from, like, Home Depot, the big orange bucket, and you get chest waders, and you get a lamp, and you get a rake, and you go out. You, like, walk sides, and you, like, find out when the crabs are coming in. And you go out at night, you turn on your light on your lamp, and guess what? They just walk to you, and you pick them up with your rake, and you put them in your bucket. And you can catch up to your limit, whatever it was in those particular years. You catch your limit, and now you've got crab.

[00:19:53] Jon Chee: Cool. Super cool.

[00:19:54] Nicole Paulk: Yeah. So I was just hustling to try to, like, get enough money to make rent and to pay tuition, but still, like, wasn't like, oh, I'm all in on this field, on this thing. Like, yes. I knew I needed to go to college, but I still, like, hadn't found my way, and I didn't know. And my then boyfriend at the time, he got a baseball scholarship to Central Washington University. So I was like, well, let's just transfer. We'll both go because Central is actually a little bit cheaper than Western. So I was like, uh, I can save even more money. So I transferred over to Central with him, and then now I was, like, really at an ag school. I mean, I was, like, just straight up, like, straight up ag school. And, yeah, it was just a really weird experience to go. I mean, you're still Pacific Northwest, but, like, now it went from, like, the rainy side of the state to, like, the dry side of the state. And just being on a campus where, you know, it's just so fun. Like, I think now about, like, all the snooty places that, like, I have been in academia, both myself as a student and as a trainee and as a professor. And I think back to Central and just, like, everyone's just in Carhartt's, and everyone's just dirty. Yeah. Like, in a good way. Yeah. And everyone's driving a beater, and everything's held together with duct tape. But, like, nobody cares because there's just no judgment. It's not weird to drive your tractor to class.

[00:21:09] Jon Chee: Yeah.

[00:21:09] Nicole Paulk: That's okay. That's normal, and it's fine. And just kind of how that shapes you. And quite honestly, like, I fell into science. Like, I always liked it growing up, but I wasn't like, oh my god. I'm gonna be a scientist. Really, like, I just needed money to, like, make rent and pay for tuition. I mean, it's not like it was crazy. It was $3,000 a year, but, like, I didn't have it. So it was just like, how am I gonna make tuition? And I was like, well, what if I did research for cash, like, for payment, like, for salary? And I looked around on campus, and there was literally two professors on the entire campus who had grants where they could actually pay you in cash from their grant to, like, do work on a project rather than pay you in research credits. And one of those professors was, like, in the English department. And I was like, pretty sure I don't wanna, like, study English lit. Like, love it, but, like, not my jam. So and the other one happened to be a chemistry professor. And I wasn't, like, all in on chemistry, but I was just like, I mean, chemistry's cool. I got no beef there. So, like, maybe I will go and I had already taken a course from this professor, Anya Johansen. I had taken a course from her, and she seemed amazing. I loved her to death. Loved her to death to this day. And, like, after the course, I was just kinda like, hey. Could I, like, do stuff in your lab, like, for money? She was just like, yeah. I guess. So I kinda got started in her lab. And but in the beginning, I was still just very much almost like a technician just, like, doing glass washing.

[00:22:39] Jon Chee: Yeah. Dishwashing.

[00:22:41] Nicole Paulk: The gel. Then Yeah. It's a chemistry lab, so you're doing acid washing. You don't, like, wash things in the dishwasher with soap because they leave a residue that affects the chemical reactions, and so you do you clean out all the glassware with acids. It's like all these acid baths and whatever. And I was spending more time in the Science Building, and I was, like, taking more science courses and really just got enamored with viruses through, like, all the normal, you know, intro to virology 101 and microbiology 201 and whatever. And wasn't thinking about them as medicines or anything at that point. It was just like, man, these things are just crazy. And, like, loved learning about, like, taking the more advanced, like, the master's level courses.

[00:23:23] John Chee: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:23:24] Nicole Paulk: The master's courses that were more about hemorrhagic fever viruses and learning about, like, Marburg and Ebola and just being like, man, this stuff is crazy cool. Terrifying, but just so cool that something that's so small we can't even see can, like, liquefy you from the inside out. Like, that is, like, just man.

[00:23:44] John Chee: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:23:45] Nicole Paulk: It's wild to me that, like, something so small could be so powerful and could do something so crazy and then started, like, slowly reading about the concept that, like, not all viruses are like Ebola.

[00:23:59] John Chee: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:24:00] Nicole Paulk: Horribly, horribly sick. Like, many of them are perfectly fine, and they're, like, commensal things that are, like, living on you and inside of you, and it's okay. And, you know, just kind of slowly started getting interested in becoming a major in kind of medical microbiology, but, really, the interest was in viruses and virology. But it was still a small enough school that there were no virology labs where I could research even for credit, much less money, which is what I actually needed. And there just weren't a lot of, like, advanced courses because there's just a really small D3 school. There just wasn't infrastructure.

[00:24:32] Jon Chee: Yep. Yep.

[00:24:32] Nicole Paulk: You know? Fume hoods and tissue culture hoods, all these types of things. So I was just, like, reading about it as, like, this fascinated kid. Like, this thing that could happen in big cities is that there there could be a big school where they actually have resources where you could do something like that, but still wasn't thinking, like, oh, I'm gonna definitely be a professor or something. I was actually more thinking, like, oh, wouldn't it be cool to maybe go be, like, an infectious disease MD and treat people who have all these, like, fascinating viral infections. Like, they'll be, like, an ID doc, but in, like, the tropical medicine department or something at one of these big universities and, like, these big cities where you get these people with these, like, fascinating coming they've got, like, Japanese encephalitis virus And, like Yeah.

[00:25:13] John Chee: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:25:14] Nicole Paulk: Wild things that they've got because they, like, went into a hot springs on a hike on their trip down in Ecuador, and then they come back and they're, like, black and blue and swollen. And you gotta figure out, like, what in the world have they acquired in this sketchy hot spring in the past. Yeah. Yeah. So I was like, I'm definitely gonna go be, like, an infectious disease doc. I'm gonna go get an MD. This is the plan. This is so cool. And I think it was, like, my junior year of undergrad, I'd heard about there was this group at the University of Washington in Seattle that, like, I wanted to go, but I, like, couldn't afford. This is, like, $11,000 a year. I mean, I don't even know what it's up to now, but a whole lot more than 11. But, like, back then, it was just, like, this impossible amount of money. It was, like, $11,000 a year as an undergrad, and I was like, there's no way. But I had heard that there was this group that goes every other summer to Africa and spends the whole summer in Africa, like, treating people for all these infectious disease agents. I was just like, I have to get those. Oh my god. And I'm, like, asking everyone I know if they know anybody at the University of Washington and can they introduce me, like, asking all my professors and, like, I don't even remember how, but, like, somehow, I, like, got coordinated with them. And they were like, yeah. This one, like, pipsqueak over in Ellensburg, like, desperately wants to come with us. Like, are we okay? And they're just like, yeah. I mean, if she can pay. Like, if she can get the money together to, like, buy the plane tickets and you have to, like, chip in to pay for, like, the medicines and stuff that get brought and all these types of things. And I needed to raise, like, $5,000 or something for this trip to, like, pay for the lodging and to pay for the food and to pay for, like, interpreters and to pay for the your portion of, like, the driver for the Jeep and to pay for the flight and all this stuff. Just the stuff that you would need to go somewhere for three and a half months. It's a long trip. It was, like, $5,000. My whole year's tuition was 3, and I could barely afford that. I was just like, oh my god. How am I gonna get $5,000? And it's, like, funny in retrospect how naive and stupid this was, but this my grand plan, I was like, I know what I'm gonna do. Everyone is gonna think it's so cool that I'm doing this, that they will just give me money if I ask them. So I went on this, like, letter writing campaign, and I, like, wrote letters to everyone I could think of, like Bill Gates. Right? Like, famous rich dude in the state of Washington and, like, the CEO of, like, Boeing. Yeah. Just, like, every famous person, every athlete, every musician, Just everyone, but, like, only Washington.

[00:27:45] Jon Chee: Love that.

[00:27:45] Nicole Paulk: I was just like, I'm gonna go on this letter writing campaign. And I, like, wrote like, hand wrote all these letters, and I mailed them off to, like, the address that I could find for that famous person, which I'm sure 90% of them didn't even make it to the person. And I just wrote all these letters. And, like, today, I'm shocked that, like, I actually raised $5,000. I think I don't know if this is still true or maybe it is. I don't know. I'd actually love to, like, re meet these people now and be like, why did you give me a $100?

[00:28:17] John Chee: Yeah. And then they're like

[00:28:18] Nicole Paulk: I think they, like, had their administrative assistant be like, oh, if, like, a young student messages me and asks for money for, like, whatever for their pee wee soccer team. You can give up to this amount. You have my permission. Like, don't bother me. You know, I'm sure, like, it came from their assistant or something. But, like, some number of these famous people just, like, sent me money because I asked, and I raised, like, $5,000.

[00:28:43] Jon Chee: Love that. That's amazing.

[00:28:45] Nicole Paulk: And and, like, bless. Some of my, like, aunties and uncles and stuff also gave me some money. But, like, yeah, I just felt this, like, epic letter campaign, which maybe prepared me to be a CEO and go beg for money in a way I didn't realize. But it's like, I will go ask rich famous people from business and music and arts and sports and politics, and and surely, they will give me money. And then spent the entire summer of I figured it was 2003 or 2004, but somewhere in there. Spent that entire summer in Kenya and Tanzania treating people and was like it was simultaneously the best and worst thing ever. It was the best because I think I learned a very important thing about myself, and it was the worst because it it was another, like, midlife crisis, but now three years after the last one that I had just had.

[00:29:34] Jon Chee: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:29:35] Nicole Paulk: What am I gonna be if not someone doing sports? Because I realized this, like, whole plan that I have. Like, I'm gonna be infectious disease doc. I love viruses. This is the plan. This is the vision. I'm gonna go be an MD. And I went there, and I realized I don't like sick people, not in the way that that sounds. I don't like them in from the perspective, like, I was not good at detaching from seeing these sick people and, like, not taking on, like, the weight of their symptoms and of their disease. And, like, I would meet someone who is sick, And there were people that, like, we didn't have medicine for the thing that they had, and we had nothing to give them. And you're like you get paired up with, like, an actual MD. Obviously, I'm not prescribing things. It was paired up with, like, nurses and EMTs and doctors and folks who were also there and just kind of at the end of the day being like, what's gonna happen to that little boy that we didn't treat, the one who had an enlarged heart? And they're like, oh, well, we don't have medicine for that. Like, he would need surgery, so he will die. And you're like, but you have to just let it go. Like, there's nothing we can do for that little kid. Like, he needs to come to a first world country, and he needs a heart transplant. And we don't we obviously can't do that, so don't let it weigh on you. Like, we gotta move on and move on to the people we can help. And I, like, couldn't move on. And so, like, the weight of, like, all of these people for whom had treatable things, but we didn't have the medicine or the ability to do the things they needed with us. And it just, like, really weighed on me. And I was like, man, I don't think I'm cut out for this. I, like, couldn't detach from it. And so I, like, came back from that trip and was just, like, just felt very lost. I was like, oh my gosh. What do I do now? I've been preparing. I was premed. I was preparing to, like, go to med school. I'd taken the MCAT. Like, everything was ready. You know, it was about to be it was, like, basically at that point, like, my senior year. Just like, what do I do now? And just feeling very lost and, like, wandering around campus at night looking up at the stars and just being, like, what do I do? And thankfully, my professor, Dr. Johansen, my chemistry professor that I was still doing research with, even though I was, like, a med micro major, I was still in her lab doing chemistry research now with, like, my own projects and everything. She kinda pulled me aside, and she was just like, you really like doing science? And I was like, yeah. I love it. Love it. And she's like, what if you just went and got a PhD instead of an MD? Because, like, pre PhD and pre MD, it's like it's all basically the same coursework. So, like, all of your credits would work. What if you just went and got a PhD instead of an MD and you became, like, a scientist rather than a physician? Then you won't really be behind somehow. Like, the thought had never crossed my mind that, yeah, actually. I could still study viruses and, like, actually do, like, discovery things. It's just like one of those funny things where it's like something so obvious, but it hadn't crossed your mind. And I was like, yeah. Yeah. Actually, I could go be a scientist, and I could go be PhD in viruses and study whatever I want. What a great idea. So kudos to her for the rest of my life for, like, making a very simple comment that didn't, like, change that.

[00:32:33] Jon Chee: Change the trajectory.

[00:32:37] Outro: That's all for this episode of The Biotech Startups Podcast featuring Nicole Paulk. Join us next time for part two when Nicole recounts answering a Craigslist job posting that unknowingly landed her in one of the country's most celebrated stem cell labs, spending months nicknaming her world-famous PI, Marky Mark, and leaving whoopee cushions under his chair only to find out from his assistant that he was meeting the President of The United States. If you enjoy the show, subscribe, leave a review, or share it with a friend. Thanks for listening, and see you next time. The Biotech Startups Podcast is produced by Excedr. Don't want to miss an episode? Search for The Biotech Startups Podcast wherever you get your podcasts, and click subscribe. Excedr provides research labs with equipment leases on founder-friendly terms to support paths to exceptional outcomes. To learn more, visit our website, www.excedr.com. On behalf of the team here at Excedr, thanks for listening. The Biotech Startups Podcast provides general insights into the life science sector through the experiences of its guests. The use of information on this podcast or materials linked from the podcast is at the user's own risk. The views expressed by the participants are their own and are not the views of Excedr or sponsors. No reference to any product, service, or company in the podcast is an endorsement by Excedr or its guests.