The Competitive Threat Reshaping US Drug Discovery Strategy | Richard Yu (Part 4/4)

Intro - 00:00:06: Welcome to the Biotech Startups Podcast by Excedr. Join us as we speak with first-time founders, serial entrepreneurs, and experienced investors about the challenges and triumphs of running a biotech startup from pre-seed to IPO with your host, Jon Chee. In our last episode, Richard shared reconnecting with Gustavo Pesce to co-found Abalone Bio, going through Y Combinator with the yeast-based GPCR antibody platform, and the devastating loss when Gustavo died in a skiing accident in 2021. If you missed it, check out part three.

In part four, Richard unpacks how processing grief and mortality gave clarity and focus, stripping away what's inessential and integrating all aspects of life and work into a cohesive whole. He also breaks down building the team after Gustavo's death, developing CB2 agonist antibodies that reverse fibrosis and reduce neuropathy, and thinking strategically about which programs to partner versus develop internally based on value inflection points. He reflects on hitting his 400th rejection from VCs, why the West Coast frontier mentality enables entrepreneurial resilience, and watching AI transform impossible 1995 problems—protein folding, natural language, vision—into solved challenges, reshaping drug discovery.

Richard Yu - 00:01:51: Like, you know, sort of you survived the new growth of 2025, '26.

Jon Chee - 00:01:56: Hell, yeah. This—you're building that resilience.

Richard Yu - 00:01:59: Yeah. I will not quit. I will not quit. It's like that's—I mean, we're talking about formative years. Right? It's like, my parents were—you know, it was like an arranged marriage. Right? So it was not textbook Western romance. Right? So for better or for worse, I learned that, you know, like, you figure the shit out. Right? Like, there's certain things you hold as, like, inviolate, and then, you know, you—the rest, you just figure it out. Right? And, yeah, this one, like—yeah. I—I've definitely gotten guidance. I'm like, "Oh, you should be thinking about selling or thinking about getting acquired." And, of course, as a CEO, I have to weigh these options. Right? But I get this from my—my parents, you know, or culture or whatever. Right? Like, I just remember going to visit China in 1995 with my parents. This is actually when I referenced earlier about Axel being cool about letting me take some time off before starting grad school. So I had this opportunity to go, and we went on this tour of the Yellow Mountains. And I don't know if you've been there, but it's like those Chinese scroll paintings with, like, the craggy cliff and, like, the lone pine tree or whatever. Right? Like, it—it actually looks like that. It's—it's insane. Right? It's, like, beautiful. Right? But the tram to the top, I think it's, like, 2,000 meters, something like that. It was, like, no joke, man. The tram was broken and, like, my—I think it's 70—yeah. So that was, like, yeah. He's, like, 72, 73. Right? My dad and my mom, they just, like, hiked it. Right? I mean, they just, like, hoofed it. It was, like, one foot after the other. It's, like, long marching up the mountain. Like, I was like, "Holy crap." There's one point where I was like, "I have to sit down." Like, my legs—I'm, like, looking at my legs. I'm like, "I just—they wouldn't move." And I was like, "I've used up every, um, like, molecule of ATP in my—" Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And my parents are just like—they freaking just kept going. It's like something—it's like pure mind over matter. I was so impressed by that. Yeah. So I'm like, I think, there's some of that DNA in me to, like—I don't know. I just—I just don't give up about the stuff now. For better or for worse. Right? I mean, probably almost certainly to my financial detriment.

Jon Chee - 00:03:57: Yeah. I think too, like, a lot of the stories end when you give up. Yeah. And look, it's a double-edged sword.

Richard Yu - 00:04:04: Totally. I—this is not bragging by any means.

Jon Chee - 00:04:06: Yeah. Yeah.

Richard Yu - 00:04:06: It's like—it's just—

Jon Chee - 00:04:07: It's like you live by the sword and you die by the sword.

Richard Yu - 00:04:09: But—but—

Jon Chee - 00:04:12: There are, you know, the pros and cons to it, and I think I'm similar in that way. I wonder if it's just like—my wife just says I'm super stubborn.

Richard Yu - 00:04:19: Such a fine line between, yeah, driven and stubborn. Yeah. Yeah.

Jon Chee - 00:04:22: Like, you're just really stubborn. And—and delusional. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you kinda have to be over—

Richard Yu - 00:04:26: That's like another step over. Very close. Yeah. Very close. Yeah. And, like,

Jon Chee - 00:04:29: I mean, look. When you're developing your own pipeline, you gotta, like, grit through that, and you gotta be an optimist. Like—like we said, it's like—it's a miracle. It's a proper miracle, a proper miracle. And, like, as you are pushing to think through the pipeline, when do you keep things internal and when do you externalize it?

Richard Yu - 00:04:48: We try to get more upfront thoughtful about that in terms of pipeline prioritization. So I think that probably the easiest flag, or if you wanna call it that, is, essentially, when is your major value creation point? Right? So, like, for metabolic drugs, like, if you have an obesity application, you can get enormous values with, like, phase one data, right, with, like, super simple measurements. Right? So we have one program like that, and then we have another program in the liver fibrosis space. Like, awesome molecule. It's like working in a mechanism that's differentiated from others. They appear to be having fibrosis reversal effects. We could take care of some of the later-stage patients and complement some of the GLP-1s and the FGF21s and then the metabolic drugs. But it's like to prove that out, to get to the value inflection point, it's like, you know, phase two, and then it's like biopsies and stuff. It's like it gets a lot more complicated and expensive and risky. So and then, I mean, there's like a greater context there of, like, there's uncertainty around how much the metabolic drugs and prevention is gonna take care of things like liver fibrosis—or at least the ones that are happening in the first-world nations that are paying for these drugs. So then that sort of influences the decision about this one might make more sense to capture, you know, value now while it actually could have an impact, more of an impact. And, also, it's just, like, a lot less input that we need to—to make. Now, of course, it's never black and white. Right? It could be other data or other market conditions or a suitably motivated investor to really drive that clinically. And sure, we'd absolutely, you know, consider that for the right set of circumstances. But if—

Jon Chee - 00:06:27: We had to choose right

Richard Yu - 00:06:28: Now, yeah, one is sort of, like, more naturally inclined towards a partnering path than internal development path.

Jon Chee - 00:06:34: Interesting. Interesting. And, like, I love kinda getting, like, a peek under how you're thinking about designing the portfolio. And, again, it's, like, super multivariate, so it's like I realize these things, like, there is no one, like, silver bullet.

Richard Yu - 00:06:46: Well, yeah. I mean, this—I mean, hot off the heels of JPM. Right? And, like, this last year really has been this, like, rise of China, right, in the biotech therapeutics, particularly. Right? So particularly over the last couple years when investors and even pharma have been very much in a risk-off regime, it's very much about validated targets. Like, no one wants to stack biology risk on top of that. Right? As we're saying, it's like a miracle, and these drugs work already. So, like, let's pick a target that way we know if we drug it, it should do something. Right? And we're hearing some conversations on post-JPM. It's like, you know, now with China—the China biotech ecosystem, it makes a lot of sense to go into novel targets because it's a one place where we can—in the US, so this can really differentiate. If there is a validated target out there, there's 50 companies out there working on it, you know, or already have the product ready for sale. Right? And if they don't have it, they're working three times more for one-third the cost. Right? So it's just like, you simply cannot compete, right, on that basis. Right? So this is the macros informing. Right? Maybe the next target we pick is a novel target. Right? Because, like, it's a moat. Yeah. And with the platform, you can do that. You can take multiple shots. Right? So, yeah, if we can get the resources to do that, I've been thinking a lot about that. Like, what's the novel target? Right? We can use our platform to do things like de-orphanize orphan GPCRs and generate molecules for, you know, more sort of fundamental biological studies. And, we can't do research per se, but, you know, for things where it's been partially de-orphanized or there's some good genetic evidence for this or that, then that, you know, we might consider taking some of those targets on in the—in the pipeline. But, yeah, active area, considering—I mean, it's like changing by the day. Right? Between that and, like, AI, like, who the hell knows. Right? I'm just—Yeah. In three months, we may all be out of a job. Right? Like, literally, three months.

Jon Chee - 00:08:37: Like, who knows? Right? Yeah. Because, like, I—I think too is, like, we gotta, like, play to our strengths. Right? It's just, like, playing to our strength. Right? Like, if you're trying to compete on exactly what you described with China, you're probably cooked. Yeah. Like, oh, the infrastructure and just, like, the speed in which they can, like, spin these things up, unbelievable.

Richard Yu - 00:08:55: Like, it is—unbelievable. Yeah. The wind is in their sails, and the wind is being generated by, like, some massive, you know, electrically powered, you know, Uber fan that they've also developed too. Right? It's unbelievable. And all the support from the government all the way up. Right? And—and the culture. I—I mean, to this day, my mom is always asking, like, "How come we never see articles in the newspaper about, like, scientists, and it's always about, like, sports people?" And, you know, right, like, oh my gosh. Celebrity. That's just a culture norm. You know? Like, it's—and, of course, it's different now, like, Elon and all the tech and AI, of course, is on the front page now. But, I mean, for most of my life, it wasn't. Right? It's like Bill Gates, you know, Steve Jobs. It is like a handful of people. But even then, it's not, like, popular people really. Sorry. The—the sort of, like, layperson's, like, sure I have a phone in my pocket, but, you know, who's your real hero? Like, you know, Taylor Swift or—

Jon Chee - 00:09:48: Or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't—

Richard Yu - 00:09:51: Know anything wrong with that. It's just, yeah, it's just a different culture. Right? So it's—yep. I heard it described as, like, the US and China is, like, the country of engineers versus the country of lawyers. Right? So, like—yeah. It's, um, very illuminating, I think.

Jon Chee - 00:10:04: Yeah. I think also just, like, with regards to the macro and having that, like, risk-off kind of, like, mentality. Like you said, you've gone through multiple cycles now. Like, the animal spirits kind of, like, come back. And once someone just hits it, like, a super grand slam with a novel target—

Richard Yu - 00:10:23: Yeah. Yeah. It's just like—we need novel targets. Yeah.

Jon Chee - 00:10:24: Yeah. It is—but it always kind of happens like that.

Richard Yu - 00:10:27: Exactly. And, like, you can see that intersecting with, again, with, like, you know, the oft-discussed, you know, pharma patent cliff and everything and, like, how many PD-1, PD-L1 drugs and how many, you know, GLP-1 drugs are you gonna pay? Right? This is like, you know—again, there—there are 50 of them in China. Right? Or, you know, T-cell engagers or whatever. Right? You know, bispecifics—it's—there is going to be a drive towards—there has to be at some point, right, some room in the market for these novel targets. That's some of the thinking underlying our portfolio construction, but it's equal parts strategic and—and opportunistic, right, which I guess is a strategy in and of itself.

Jon Chee - 00:11:04: I love that. I love that. And as you're looking one year, two years out for you and Abalone, like, what do you see in the horizon?

Richard Yu - 00:11:13: The one-to-two-year frame, I mean, we wanna get our metabolic drug near and into the clinic. Right? Those are the—the timeframe. That—that'll be awesome. And then, you have—backfill the—the pipeline with other programs. You know, on the five-year timeline, yeah, we want multiple clinical programs. On the technology side, I think we'll have, at that point, had enough functional data and hopefully the resources to build out the computational side of things to really see how much generalizable information we can pull out of the datasets that we have and, you know, how predictive and how generative can we get around molecules. Right? So if we do that and shortcut evermore the sort of earlier discovery and development stages, that'd be awesome too. Right? It's all about, like, cutting down the timelines. That and, you know, these timelines, like, are layered on top of, like, traditional drug development timelines, the antibodies and manufacturing, you know, IND-enabling studies and all that. But, like, all that's up for grabs too, man. Like, whether it's on the trial side or investigator-initiated trials are all popular again, and then, yeah, with manufacturing and just sort of regulatory guidelines, who—who knows where that's gonna go. The core gap that we're trying to bridge is, like, can you even find a molecule that does what you wanna do on the target that you want? Right? That's our core mission. Right? Yes. We wanna optimize everything else and get it to the later stages so that it can ultimately, you know, get into someone and help as quickly as possible. But our core mission is, like, can we do that better and find better molecules? We can do that multiple times over the next few years. It'll be like a—I can definitely, you know, go to sleep with a big smile on my face. I already do, but, you know, even a bigger smile.

Jon Chee - 00:12:47: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Richard Yu - 00:12:48: Hopefully, like, make that, like, pivotal decision not to go, you know, get a job at Yahoo in 1993.

Jon Chee - 00:12:54: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Make—

Richard Yu - 00:12:54: That pay off so I could, like, you know, buy a vacation for my mom or something. You know?

Jon Chee - 00:12:58: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that poor—

Richard Yu - 00:13:00: Grad student thing. Yeah. I've been living for my whole life. You know? Like, "Mom, why'd you make me do this? Why?"

Jon Chee - 00:13:09: "I could've—I could've been a super billionaire."

Richard Yu - 00:13:12: Yeah. "Could've been a contender." Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

Jon Chee - 00:13:14: "It could've been me."

Richard Yu - 00:13:15: Yeah. It's so funny. I mean, you got the Asian thing going. Right? So it's like everything from, like, the PhD in biological science. And PhD is pretty—it's a pretty good calling card for—for the Asians, but, my mom is, like, always referring to, like, other doctors, like—like, real doctors. Like, "Oh, you know, your cousin so-and-so is the—the doctor, MD doctor." Right? Like, you know, like, "Not like—" Yeah. "Not like you. Like, she actually makes, you know, money. Like—"

Jon Chee - 00:13:40: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Richard Yu - 00:13:41: That's so funny.

Jon Chee - 00:13:41: It's so funny because, like, I remember, like, you know, that was decent years into Excedr already. And my—like, my dad, I was out of school for, like, a while, and he was just like, "So when are you going back to law school?" I was like, "What?"

Richard Yu - 00:13:55: Like, "When are you gonna be done with this hobby of yours?" I'm like, "Actually—"

Jon Chee - 00:13:58: Yeah. Basically. I was just like, "What do you mean?" This is—this is, like, year six. Like, we're pretty deep already. Like, I don't know if I'm going back. I mean, like, I don't know. But it's the classic.

Richard Yu - 00:14:09: So funny. It's so funny. No. I mean, my mom's been, like, super supportive. I was telling my mom this, like—I mean, you guys set the DNA as immigrants for the entrepreneur. Like, I mean, to me, immigrants are the ultimate entrepreneurs. Right? For sure. You go into a freaking foreign culture. I mean, my dad is one of those classic $150, $350, whatever the number was in a suitcase, and, like, that was it. You know what I mean? It was like, that is bold. Like, so much more bold than anything I've ever done in my life. Right? So that, you know, it's very easy to use that as inspiration to, like—and not pay back. Right? Like, I mean, I wanna do well so I can, like, pay that back. For sure.

Jon Chee - 00:14:48: Yeah. I was gonna say, yeah. Exactly. I—I talk about, you know, the immigrant experience, like, for leaving everything behind. It's like—and you don't speak the language?

Richard Yu - 00:14:58: I know. Yes. Unreal. Unreal. Oh, the courage is like—that's hard mode. Like—yeah. Seriously, that's found proper hard. Right.

Jon Chee - 00:15:06: Yeah. Proper hard.

Richard Yu - 00:15:08: It's not sleeping in your office and, like, getting DoorDash for dinner—no—because you didn't wanna go home and cook. Like, right. You

Jon Chee - 00:15:13: Know? Yeah. Fine. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That is, like, proper hard. And, like, I was just, like, thinking about that too because I was just, like, you know, had a, like, a hard day. And I was just, like, "Why am I feeling like this right now? This—I should not feel like this." Like, "Snap out of it, Jon. This is just, like, things are not as hard as you're making it seem, so, like, you'll be okay."

Richard Yu - 00:15:34: Yeah. I mean, it's like, by any measure, we've—all of us. Even friends of mine who've, like, just shut down their company last week, which I know by the—right—or who've been booted from their companies by a patient's VC or whatever. Right? Like, we're still, like, in the top, you know, zero zero whatever percentage of the world population. Anyone at any time—there—there are billions of people that would trade places with us in an instant, and it would be heaven for them to be where we're at, like, in—on my worst day. You know what I mean? So, like, if there's any lesson that I pulled out of, like, the past few years and, like, Goose passing away and all that stuff, it's like—it's like really just trying to hold that perspective because it just makes everything so much easier and so much nicer. You know? And it's just gratitude to be able to do this. It's like—it's pretty awesome.

Jon Chee - 00:16:20: It's pretty freaking awesome. Yeah.

Richard Yu - 00:16:22: I would not want to do—and so much so that, like, again, like, friends of mine who are, like, in the middle of shutting down or—or selling off companies, like, "Oh, what should I do?" It's like a super traumatic experience, and then they're like, "Well, what's the next company I'm gonna start?" It's like—it's a—it's like—and one of my friends is calling it—it's like—it's like a sickness. Like, I just—

Jon Chee - 00:16:40: Yeah.

Richard Yu - 00:16:40: Can't think of anything else, you know? But it's—it's intoxicating. You know? It's like to pull together so many threads, like strategy, science, interpersonal stuff. It's like—it's—um—it's like a—so thrilling. Like, it's awesome.

Jon Chee - 00:16:54: I think the West Coast is very—like, it's a very unique—and this is not, you know—has been said a million times, but I think it's, like, it still rings true. It's just like—the West Coast is just, like, unique in the sense of the, like—in fostering that kind of infectious entrepreneurial energy that is, like, really hard to recreate elsewhere.

Richard Yu - 00:17:12: Frontier mentality, baby. You know? Like—

Jon Chee - 00:17:14: It's proper real.

Richard Yu - 00:17:16: Like, baked in. Yeah. When I started graduate school on the East Coast, right, one of the first people I did a rotation with, Bill Summers—a classic, you know, old-school phage biologist. He studied, like, homeogenic kinases and such, and history of science in China. He's a super fascinating guy. Anyway, he quipped that, like, "Oh, the Northeast—the labs here, like, the culture is very much like an agricultural mentality." Meaning that's, like, "Oh, I gotta—it's like it's fall. I gotta—I gotta harvest and get ready for the winter. And then, like, in the wintertime, it's like, 'Oh, I gotta—I gotta get ready for the planting.' And, like, in the spring and summer, it's like, 'Oh, I gotta—I gotta work the fields to get ready for the fall.'" It's like—it's like this constant pressure to, like, do the—that next thing or else you're gonna starve. Right? Which is, like, completely different than—and, like, you're not gonna be, like, inventing shit at that time. It's like, you just gotta, like, survive, you know? And then so the West Coast is much more, like, yeah, the frontier mentality. Like, "What's the new thing we can create? Like, forging a path out, you know?" These are, of course, all caricatures, but it's an interesting, perspective from Bill.

Jon Chee - 00:18:14: Yep. For sure. And it's a whole ecosystem too that, like, is supportive of it that's kinda, like, built up in the Bay Area and, like, the West Coast of, like, these experiences—like you said, your friend having to shut down their company. It's a—it's a strength. Like, you've built up all this accumulated creative experience that just then leverages to the next. Whereas, like, I know, like, whether it's the East Coast or, like, in—in other countries as well, it's a—a mark, like a—a bad mark, like a proper bad mark. Totally. Totally. And that unique kind of, like, difference there because, like, I know there's plenty of people who wanna start a company, but just, like, are paralyzed about, like, "If it doesn't work out, I'm done. Like, I won't be—I won't be able to get hired."

Richard Yu - 00:18:55: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. "I'll starve. Yeah. I'll starve."

Jon Chee - 00:18:58: "I'll proper starve." Like—but out here, it's like, "Nah. I'll figure it out."

Richard Yu - 00:19:02: Like—figure it out.

Jon Chee - 00:19:03: Like, I'll figure it out. And we talked about culture. Right? Like, we talked about it's kinda like these intangible cultural elements—

Richard Yu - 00:19:09: Oh, so yeah.

Jon Chee - 00:19:11: That are—have massive implications, like, massive implications. And then, you know, China has its own culture too. Right? Exactly.

Richard Yu - 00:19:16: Right. And, like,

Jon Chee - 00:19:17: When you try to just, like, do what another culture is doing, it's just like—you're—you're—it's a recipe for disaster.

Richard Yu - 00:19:24: I totally remember in the eighties, like, when it was Japan instead of China, and, like, I still remember this news clip of, like—I think it's—I can't remember if it was GM or Ford, but there's, like, you know, GM is importing Toyota, um, management themes, and it's like—it's like this—this sort of, like, balding, portly white dude, like, going up and, like, hey—and, like, bowing towards his, like, you know, similarly, portly, balding, you know, little line workers. It's just like, "Seriously, dude? You're, like, totally missing the message. That's not the essential element of why Toyota is successful."

Jon Chee - 00:19:55: It's kinda leaning into what makes you unique—like, your organization or whatever you're working on uniquely strong. I think there's a lot of media out there on, like, "This is how a company should be run. This is the ideal, like, code. Like, Elon sleeps on the factory floor, so, therefore, you should too." And I was just like—that just works for them. Like—

Richard Yu - 00:20:16: Yeah. Exactly. And that can be a great source of, like, self-flagellation or insecurity, or if you wanna call it that. Right? It's like, I can use my own company as an example. Right? Like, we went through the 2021, '22, twenty-threeish, if you wanna be generous, um, biotech bubble. And, like, there are all these other companies that were raising tons of money on, like, absurdly high valuations. Right? And it's like, "Well, you gotta do that." And, like, it's like this weird, like, Reddit pickup artist guidebook, but for fundraising or whatever. It's like, "Oh, you gotta say this, and, like, you gotta respond to emails within twenty minutes, or else they're gonna think you're a loser or whatever." I'm like—I mean, maybe, you know? Right? Like, but then it's like the one thing I've really grown to appreciate is, like, there's a difference between seeking and filtering. Right? And, like, I mean, I say this for my personal, like, life with my wife and with the investors that we found who are, like, incredible. Right? It's like—just being yourself is, like, the way to go. Right? I mean, at the very least, at the end of the day, if it doesn't work out, at least you had that, you know.

Jon Chee - 00:21:16: Yeah. For sure.

Richard Yu - 00:21:17: Because, like, I mean, the brief moments where I've tried to do what you're supposed to do, like, for me, yeah, I guess that—that authenticity thing is just another one of those sort of core pillars I sort of stand on. For better or for worse, it's just my experience, but I can always go to sleep at night.

Jon Chee - 00:21:34: Yeah. And I think even just, like, broadening it out from the individual to the organization, it's like each organization has its own kind of, like, authentic self. Yeah. Right? Yeah.

Richard Yu - 00:21:45: Yeah. Totally.

Jon Chee - 00:21:46: And then, like, leaning into that versus, like, just trying to implant, like, you know, the Google. Like—yeah. Exactly. Like, "We just wanna be like Google." Just like, "Dude, you're not Google." Yeah.

Richard Yu - 00:21:55: Exactly. Or Elon X or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. It's like—your culture and, like, how do you intentionally craft it with the parts that you have with, you know, the unique circumstances and the unique point in space and time that you exist in? Like, it's—if you just step outside of it, it's like—it's so fascinating, the whole process. For sure. I think that's—yeah. It's probably been the most, like—or go back to, like, one of the points is, like, you know, what would you tell your 21-year-old self. Right? Or, like, one of those core lessons is, like, yeah. Just like these—these pillars of, like, just learning. It's easy to say, but you actually have to, like, practice the shit. Right? It's like gratitude and just maintaining curiosity and stuff and, like, kindness slash honesty, you know, like, these—seeing things for what they really are, awareness, like, true awareness, presence, you know, all those facets of a gem. Those are the things that I wish I could transmit, to my 21-year-old. Save me a lot of—lot of time and stress and suffering, you know.

Jon Chee - 00:22:51: And it also takes time. Right?

Richard Yu - 00:22:52: Like—yeah. The only way through is through. Right? Like, you have to actually go through some of this stuff.

Jon Chee - 00:22:57: Yeah. It's, like, one thing to just, like, hear it or see it on a piece of paper, but it's, like, kinda go through it, practice it, and, like, live it.

Richard Yu - 00:23:04: Yeah. I got it. That's one thing from the—some of the—yeah. And the YC—I mean, the Bay Area in general and sort of Silicon Valley thing is very sort of youth-obsessed. Right? So, like, that means that, you know, there is a bias towards inexperienced people. Right? So it's—it's interesting to see the—again, there's a boon and a bane, everything. Right? But you're not held back by fears of things that you may have experienced, but at the same time, like, there's a lot of growth that you can get going through the shit.

Jon Chee - 00:23:31: Yeah. Exactly.

Richard Yu - 00:23:32: And the—and the triumphs too. But, like, yeah, the problem-monkey your way through.

Jon Chee - 00:23:36: And that's maybe the—you live by the sword, die by the sword type situation is that, I think sometimes experience on the West Coast is, like, not valued enough.

Richard Yu - 00:23:46: Yeah. Right.

Jon Chee - 00:23:47: It's not valued enough because, like, nowadays, especially with—you know, I'm not an AI or ML or any of that stuff, but now it's just like getting younger and younger. You're just like, "You need to be, like, a 15-year-old AI whiz kid." No. Seriously. Right. I'm just like, "For real?" I feel like there's a lot of, like, very helpful experiences that you go through between that time period and insert way, like, that actually can be informative.

Richard Yu - 00:24:12: Yeah. It's like we're accelerating the—the negative direction. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, with the AI intersection, who—who knows where that's—that's gonna go? I mean, I—I'm talking to my kids about this. Right? I mean, it's like they went to school at Berkeley High and, like, friends of theirs who went to school in Palo Alto. Like, man, that would have been really challenging to grow up in those times, like, when you have, like, you know, your classmates selling some company for $10,000,000 with some project idea. Right? It's like—yeah. It's like, who wants to go to school to learn engineering or something after that? Right?

Jon Chee - 00:24:40: Like—yeah. Yeah. It's like—it is a different time. Like, that's a—it's like—a proper different time.

Richard Yu - 00:24:46: My stupid ass little, you know, ASCII Space Invaders thing could have—like, you know, like, if I put that out and, like, made tens of thousands of dollars as a 12-year-old, like—yeah.

Jon Chee - 00:24:56: I'm sure I would have gone to school. Yeah. It's so funny. It was, like, outside Cafe Strada, like, the CD. You should've been flipping the CDs.

Richard Yu - 00:25:03: The CD. The CD. "They gave me $10,000 this month." Yeah.

Jon Chee - 00:25:06: Just—you should've been just flipping those. Like, it's gonna be—you can call it a day. Like, it was—would've been a wrap. But, Rich, you've been so generous with your time.

Richard Yu - 00:25:14: Oh, man, dude. It's been great. I hope you can edit it down to something coherent. Yeah.

Jon Chee - 00:25:19: I think we're gonna be good. And also just, like, badass that, like, you are an avid motorcycle rider. Also, I was like, that's sick.

Richard Yu - 00:25:28: A lot of life lessons in that and, like—I have my other things are, like, rock climbing and surfing and stuff. Right? It's like—it's very much like—again, it's like this intersection of, like, being independent. Like, you're in charge of your own fate, but at the same time, like, you know, it's much more fun to do it with people. Right? Other people in the shared experiences. Right?

Jon Chee - 00:25:46: Very cool, though. Yeah. That's so rad. And you touched on one of the closing questions, but I'll ask you the last one. If you can give any shout-outs to anyone who support you along the way, would you like to give them the shout-out?

Richard Yu - 00:25:57: Oh, man. So many. I—I have listed so many people in this call already. Everyone's been formative. I—you know, I—I'm very lucky to have—not—whether there's just sort of willful blindness on my part or—or not. Yeah. I haven't really been, like, screwed or hurt by people, and most recently, by investors or otherwise. So, yeah, I'm just very, very grateful that I've been able to minimize my trauma scores on—on that front. But, um, um, yeah. I mean, it goes all the way back to, you know, I think first and foremost, parents, for sure, when we touch upon some of the lessons that they, have planted deep within me. My wife too, of course. You know, companies, it's like another relationship, you know. So it's like—she had to deal with, like, a—it was like a polyamorous, you know, marriage or whatever. Right? Because, like, it's a—you gotta make room for another thing, you know.

Jon Chee - 00:26:46: It's real. I was gonna just say that for me too. I was just like, "Your significant other's along for the ride." Totally. Yeah. But they didn't sign up for it.

Richard Yu - 00:26:54: Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Totally. Significant others. Yeah. I mean, they all along the way. Just friends and—and and boy shits along the way that have just gotten me to—to where I am. And—and the company experience—shout out to my dearly departed co-founder, Gustavo, he's still, you know, motivating me and teaching me things to the day, you know—the current team that we have here. I'm not just saying this because I feel like I need to, but, like, our current investors have really shown me, much like my wife with, like, relationships and how—like—what we were just talking about earlier about, like, needing to do things to, like, you know, pick up, you know, mates in the—the right? It's like—we just very organically found each other, and it's just worked out,

Jon Chee - 00:27:33: Like, awesome. Like, we just celebrated our

Richard Yu - 00:27:35: Thirtieth wedding anniversary. We—been together over thirty-five years. It's crazy. Right? So, um, it's been just awesome. And, likewise, with our investors, we found our way to really complementary, supportive people. And then, you know, from the investor side, they're not doing it as charity. They're doing it because they wanna make money, which is fine. And I wanna make money too, and I wanna make them money too. But it's like, you can be a good person about it and, like, keep things aligned and minimize the drama. And, like, it actually works out better for everyone. You know? The work is hard enough as it is. So, like, let's—let's make it easy on ourselves.

Jon Chee - 00:28:06: Absolutely. Yeah. Like, let's not make this hard thing even harder if we don't have to.

Richard Yu - 00:28:12: Yeah. The—just reflecting what we're just talking about. You know, I touched upon a few ideas that sort of run through my experience, right, like, um, meditation and awareness stuff. So sounds like probably, for those of you who listen to podcasters like Sam Harris or use the Waking Up app, you hear a lot of those threads. It's because I've, like, really internalized that—that material and then—and really worked on and tried to weave it into my day-to-day experience. It's made such a huge difference. Right? But what actually set me off in that path, I—I feel like I really should give a shout-out to these people. First was, limiting beliefs and sort of flow expert, executive coach, Lindsey Briner, who really just gotten started on the meditation aspects and just sort of building up present moment awareness, which has been, like, absolutely essential to my, you know, mental health and well-being on the startup ride. And then throughout the process, up to now, Jay Wilson, my executive coach right now, is just a great regular touchpoint to not only develop my own emotional self-awareness, you know, work a bit in sort of the Internal Family Systems and Enneagram frameworks. Again, none of these things are magical, but they do have some grains of truth buried deep within. And then, you know, of course, I shouted him out earlier as part of the key stepstone in my journey. But, yeah, I just wanna reiterate my great thanks to a true friend and mentor, Gustavo Pesce, my late co-founder. He really kept me honest. I keep a little piece of him with me all the time. One of the people on the shoulders—I don't know if it's a—angel or devil or something like that, but, he's been with me throughout this whole ride and still is, you know, making a difference every day. So, yeah, really cosmic shout-out to my brother and partner, Gustavo Pesce.[a] Yeah. I've been trying to be, as concretely helpful to—to people who may be watching this. Yeah. Go to the webpage if you want introductions, or you want, you know, talk about the investors that we have. I'd love to. They've all been, like, amazing, so I highly recommend all.

Jon Chee - 00:30:14: Love that. And I think whenever I reflect on these kind of, like, journeys and—it kind of stood out to me just like—this shit is hard. Like—yeah. Like, this shit is

Richard Yu - 00:30:23: Freaking hard. No easy path.

Jon Chee - 00:30:24: Yeah. Yeah. It is not the easy path, but, like, there are so many people and organizations that kind of, like—many hands make light work. Right? So it's kind of, like, as—it—it requires, like, this team effort on, like, all fronts, and I always am a bit suspect when people are like, "I did it on my own." And they're just like, "I don't believe you." Yeah. "I don't believe you." Like, you're—you're—you're standing on the shoulders of giants. And so I love hearing that. And, you know, I'm pumped for you guys, frankly.

Richard Yu - 00:30:53: Like—thank you, man. Yeah.

Jon Chee - 00:30:54: I'm super pumped for you and, like, and your team and everything you guys are working on. And I don't think I've heard the description of, like, your guys' efforts as, like, kind of, like, portfolio construction in quite that way, which is a really interesting way to—because I—I hear that kind of, like, almost in, like—in more in, like, hedge fund land.

Richard Yu - 00:31:11: Yeah. Yeah. Sure.

Jon Chee - 00:31:12: But it's very cool to hear it in—in life science land.

Richard Yu - 00:31:14: Yeah. It's a little bit, you know, different factors and nuance. I mean, you know, spreading risk and—and all that. But, yeah, ultimately extracting value from the best places at the right time and the right ways, and, you know, sort of like antibodies binding in the right way at the right time, you know.

Jon Chee - 00:31:27: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Richard Yu - 00:31:29: Life is so fractal, man. All these lessons just sort of, like, bounce back and forth between so many aspects. It's crazy. Yeah.

Jon Chee - 00:31:35: Yeah. And too and, like, I can see, like, this throughline where you've—you've experienced a—a wider array of, like, your time at QB3, you know, your first company startup, a West Coast experience with an East Coast experience, and, like, being an investor on one side. And, like, all these experiences—like, I think it all builds on each other. So, like, I encourage anyone who's listening—is—even if something feels like it might be unrelated or not helpful to whatever it is you're working on, I encourage you to get your hands dirty and just do it.

Richard Yu - 00:32:06: Yeah. Yeah. You never know where that—and that's why just, like, getting a bunch of experiences. David Epstein. Right? The Range, I think, Buckle and Rizzo. Yeah. Yeah. It's just, like—breadth is definitely a—a greater predictor of success than a maniacal depth. Yeah. Like I said earlier, like, working on motorcycles in my house is what got me to that job at QB3 because I was, like, putting together pipe fittings on, you know, gas line things. Right?

Jon Chee - 00:32:28: And, you know,

Richard Yu - 00:32:28: Setting up electrical lines and stuff. But that, you know, ultimately got me to where I am today. Like, it was a key step, and you just never know.

Jon Chee - 00:32:36: Never know.

Richard Yu - 00:32:36: So it's been awesome. Hopefully, the, you know—knock on, Formica tabletop here, but, many, many more lines to, block off on my life chart at home. Yeah.

Jon Chee - 00:32:46: Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. And, no, Rich, thanks again. I've had a blast. And, you know, next time I'm in the East Bay, maybe let's get, like, Cheeseboard.

Richard Yu - 00:32:54: Yeah, dude. That'd be awesome. Oh, is it for Cheeseboard? Yeah. Let me know. I'd love to, you know, come on by. I got a—we have, like, three coffee machines now at this point.

Jon Chee - 00:33:01: Perfect. I'm also addicted to coffee. So I will take you up on your three machines. Instead of double-fist, I'll, like, triple-fist of, like—yeah. Exactly. Of coffee.

Richard Yu - 00:33:09: The series A will be,—I'm gonna get one of the—I have one at home, but one of the manual lever espresso machines with the La Pavonis. Yeah. I have my eye on it. I know exactly what I'm gonna get. So, yeah, we'll—that'll be our fourth machine. So, yeah, wanna keep options. Optionality. Portfolio theory.

Jon Chee - 00:33:24: Yes. Portfolio theory. Very optimal—very optimal optionality and maximize your alphas. Exactly. Exactly. Well, Rich, thank you again. I'll be seeing you again soon. I've had a blast and rooting for you from the rafters.

Richard Yu - 00:33:39: Thank you so much, man. Yeah. It's such a pleasure and honor. I mean, I—I was looking at the roster and the people that you've interviewed on the podcast. And, um, like I said, it's an honor. So, hopefully, someone can derive some nuggets of enjoyments or wisdom out of our conversation.

Jon Chee - 00:33:55: I'm 100% sure they will, and thank you again, Rich. Alright. Thank you.

Intro - 00:34:01: Thanks for listening to our four-part series featuring Richard Yu from Ohio to Berkeley biophysics, Yale structural biology to algae biofuels, building QB3's incubator to co-founding Abalone Bio through Y Combinator, navigating his co-founder's loss, and now advancing CB2 agonist antibodies with a Pfizer collaboration. Richard's story shows how interdisciplinary depth combined with entrepreneurial resilience can tackle biology's hardest problems. If you enjoy the show, please subscribe, leave a review, or share it with a friend. Join us for our next series featuring Nicole Paulk, founder and CEO of Siren Biotechnology, a company pioneering universal AAV immunogene therapy, combining AAV gene therapy and cytokine immunotherapy into a single modality to fight solid tumor cancers. Before founding Siren, Nicole was an assistant professor of AAV gene therapy in the UCSF department of biochemistry and biophysics where her lab evolved novel AAV capsids that evade the immune system, engineered passive HIV vaccine vectors for the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, and co-developed a viral genome editing system that spun out into Logic BioTherapeutics. She holds a PhD in viral gene therapy and regenerative medicine from OHSU and completed her postdoctoral fellowship in human gene therapy at Stanford. At Siren, Nicole leads development of an off-the-shelf platform that delivers vectorized engineered cytokines directly into tumors, enabling long-term and controllable local cytokine expression while avoiding the systemic toxicities that have derailed cytokine therapies in the past. With a recently cleared FDA IND advancing the company to clinical stage and backing from Lux Capital, Nicole's journey from academic gene therapy pioneer to cancer-focused biotech CEO demonstrates how a bold scientific bet sparked unexpectedly during the COVID-19 pandemic can redefine an entire treatment modality, making this a conversation you won't want to miss. The Biotech Startups Podcast is produced by Excedr. Don't want to miss an episode? Search for the Biotech Startups Podcast wherever you get your podcasts, and click subscribe. Excedr provides research labs with equipment leases on founder-friendly terms to support paths to exceptional outcomes. To learn more, visit our website, www.excedr.com. On behalf of the team here at Excedr, thanks for listening. The Biotech Startups Podcast provides general insights into the life science sector through the experiences of its guests. The use of information on this podcast or materials linked from the podcast is at the user's own risk. The views expressed by the participants are their own and are not the views of Excedr or sponsors. No reference to any product, service, or company in the podcast is an endorsement by Excedr or its guests.