Shekhar Mitra - InnoPreneur & P&G - Part 3

Intro - 00:00:01:

Welcome to The Biotech Startups Podcast by Excedr. Join us as we speak with first-time founders, serial entrepreneurs, and experienced investors about the challenges and triumphs of running a biotech startup from pre-seed to IPO with your host, Jon Chee. In our last episode, we spoke with Shekhar Mitra about his transition from academia to Procter & Gamble. We also heard more about his time at Columbia and Yale, collaborating with top-notch physicists, and his experience working with the FDA. If you missed it, be sure to go back and give Part 2 a listen. In Part 3, we talk with Shekhar about his experience as a director of R&D in Asia, and the challenges and triumphs of taking innovation to a global scale. We also discuss the emotional and logistical challenges Shekhar faced relocating to China for a groundbreaking project, and the strategic mindset that drove him to establish the first innovation center in Asia. Lastly, we'll dive into the realm of luxury and premium brands, discussing how to redefine consumer experiences by leveraging cutting-edge technologies and creating emotional connections with brands.

Jon - 00:01:24:

And so as you're progressing through Procter & Gamble, you, very, like, you know, pretty rapidly started to rise in seniority and you started to have your hands in a lot more. I know for a moment you were a director of R&D in Asia. Can you talk about your experience going global? And I'm making an assumption here that probably a lot of the research that you were doing was in Ohio for a decent amount of time, but then you moved to China.

Shekhar - 00:01:50:

Oh, yeah. That was a very challenging situation, both personal as well as from a company assignment responsibility standpoint. I mean, that My wife had to give up her job. And the president at that time, Mr. John Pepper, and the head of R&D at that time, global R&D, head of global R&D, Gordon Brunner, had to convince us that, you know, I'm doing something very, very important. And my wife would be taken care of in case she wanted to do something worthwhile in China, which she ended up doing, thanks to P&G support. And it was a big move. My daughter was, I think, seven years old. My son was five years old. My daughter drew a picture of me dragging them to a foreign land that had a precipice, a mountain and a precipice. She was quite graphic. I still have that photo, you know. She didn't want to move from her friends here in Indian Hill, where we lived in Ohio. And my wife had to give up her editorial job. I did, I had a prestigious editorial position. And she would have to move. And they sacrificed, you know, because the challenge that I took on at P&G was also phenomenal, which was to build a forest, big innovation Center. In Asia, and that was going to be in China. And the Chinese consumers at that time, 1997 to 2000, it was peak for consumerism in China. And we just set up a big shop and all that. But they needed innovation. They needed insights and understanding from that consumer. But I knew that if I could do that, build and hire and motivate talent to come in. And I could do innovation that... That was gleaned from insights gained from the Chinese consumer. There was a chance that I could even make it global. That was my mission from day one. I wanted to think big. Even though my assignment was... Create innovation in China and make it a success. My brain was, if I can really get top-notch organization built in a period of a year. I would not only help the China business, I would help global business for creation, for whatever brand I touched. And Crest happened to be the focus for me, oral care. And that indeed happened. You know, my wish came true, but through hard work of and very smart work and creative work of the people that I could hire into the team. And a lot of support from headquarters. Initially, it was a lot of not invented here syndrome that happens in organizations. And it happened for the R&D organization in Cincinnati. But eventually they saw the benefit of some of the breakthrough ideas that led to brands like Crest Pro-Health. Which is still the biggest healthcare oral brand that exists today. Okay, the whitening work, teeth whitening world that went on. This is some of them all Chinese scientists that I hired.

Jon - 00:05:30:

Oh, wow. So that R&D was brought back to HQ?

Shekhar - 00:05:34:

Yes. And we invented... Yeah. We tiered Crest based on premium Crest. Mid-tier Crest. One was costing $3 a tube, another was costing 50 cents a tube. But the benefits on the mid-tier crest were never diluted. They always gave the fluoride enamel support. We showed two clinical studies. And the benefits on the more expensive crest had lots of bells and whistles. And this was gleaned from very, very close understanding insights of the mid-tier, the middle-class user versus the very premium users. That led to branding that was completely different, that benefits that were different, but the basic benefit of enamel strengthening, chloride release were kept the same. And that was applied throughout the globe because Rest needed lower cost Crest. Latin America needed lower cost Crest. And North America and Western Europe needed more bells and whistles. But that wasn't my initial mission. My initial mission was to start the business in China with innovation. But I always had the dream that what we do by finding insights with consumers in China and some parts of Asia, is going to help the globe. And indeed today, you know, not only have you created Crest Pro-Health, which is a huge big sub-brand within the brand of Crest and Oral-B. Oral-B is the other brand. It's the same technology. And then creating mid-tier Crest that touches the lives of people who don't want to spend tremendous amount of money, but want to get the basic experience and the benefit of truth strengthening. All these consumers serve. So suddenly, two completely different technology platforms are created through those insights in China, not only help China business, started the China business rolling and rocking, but Russia, Latin America, today P&G, thanks to their top notch marketing folks have expanded it globally. So that was a huge thing. While we built the Beijing, then I transferred the whole center to Beijing. It started in Guangzhou because that's where our headquarters for China was transferred it. And now I think Beijing has more than 300 people in Beijing. I was part of the, you know, one or two people that had the responsibility to build that center.

Jon - 00:08:26:

So there are three things that stood out to me as you were telling that experience. The first one is. I think it's important to note that There are sacrifices that are often made, but are not seen out front all the time. Your family made a big sacrifice. And you can't do it alone. You can't do it alone. And two, you can't do it without sacrifice. I think a lot of the time is unglamorous and it's just like, sometimes it just takes hard work and sacrifice to get something done. And I think, at least I found in my personal experience, there are no shortcuts.

Shekhar - 00:09:06:

No shortcuts.

Jon - 00:09:06:

No shortcuts. And you can't have your cake and eat it too. Something has got to give. And so I think my wife all the time, when I was talking about the shoe string budget that we used to have, I tell the story is that when Excedr had $0 in revenue, I had $0 in salaries. And so my wife took it upon herself to support me in those early days. And that is not something that, you know, is fully appreciated, I think, is that someone else is going out of their way to support your, whatever it may be, whatever your mission may be. And it's not, I never believed in this, like, I did it by myself. I was fully just independent. And I am a rock star now fully on my own. There are so many people that supported you along the way. And it's important to give them their flowers. And then the second part that stood out to me in your story is, one, there's a serendipitous element. You're like, I'm just going to open up the business in Asia. But lo and behold, you end up becoming. Something much more. And I think this is the thing, it's kind of the risk on, right? It's like, take the risk because you don't know what's going to come. Like we can't, we like to think that we are fortune tellers and we can predict the future, but in reality, you can't. And I'm going to imagine you probably at that moment when you were moving to China, you had no idea that press pro-health was going to be.

Shekhar - 00:10:39:

No. Not at all.

Jon - 00:10:42:

Like, no one has that expectation. And the third part that goes back to what we were talking about, about diversity, is that... I didn't know. I just learned that that technology was started from the expansion into Asia and then brought. I thought it was made in in Ohio.

Shekhar - 00:10:59:

Exactly. We really challenged our thinking to make it a truly global platform. And, you know, no one can claim that only one country or one lab was explored. There's multiple labs around the globe. In fact, a new lab. China was a new lab. You know, new people. Some of them didn't even know good English.

Jon - 00:11:22:

And that's the thing, right? I think there's something beautiful about that, like, that you can bet. Someone who's like, you guys are solid. You all are solid. And I'm going to bet on you, on all of you. And magic happens versus it's easier to just go off a resume and a history and track record. But there's sometimes amazing things can happen when you give a chance to someone who have yet to find that breakthrough innovation.

Shekhar - 00:11:55:

Absolutely. And include them, make them part of the team, excite them, motivate them. You know, these young people are hungry to contribute. But you have to draw them in. You have to get them away from all the hierarchy that exists within big organizations like P&G, shield them. Give them the cup. But don't. Don't not hold them responsible.

Jon - 00:12:21:

Yeah, you still have to be accountable.

Shekhar - 00:12:24:

Accountable. Even if you have a failure, just like I got many lives at P&G with failures. Okay. Just like you got to give them the impetus to not lose steam. Keep them inclusive and direct them into something else that they can bring their knowledge to. That is the whole work of leadership. Right? We are the orchestra conductor. If I'm not transparent and I'm demotivating you, doesn't matter how good a violinist you are, you're not gonna give 150%.

Jon - 00:12:58:

Absolutely.

Shekhar - 00:12:59:

That was my list.

Jon - 00:13:00:

And I love that analogy. And it was what our previous guest on the podcast, Martin Brenner, used a similar illustration in that like as a conductor, you have your back turned to the audience. You are not the one getting the applause. And as a leader, that's that you have to know that aspect of it, that, that you are, that applause is not, if that's what you need, that's not what a conductor is getting. It's the actual, the folks who are actually playing the music who are getting the applause, but you have to be okay with that. And so that's a really, really, I think, apt kind of metaphor. And, something that stood out to me about, as you were just talking about, like Crest being kind of tiered out into different levels, kind of like the mass market level and kind of something that's getting into the premium.

Shekhar - 00:13:47:

It's on consumer. You know, tears and-

Jon - 00:13:51:

Tears. Tears. And I know as you, you know, again, you started to progress in your career and you're ultimately senior vice president. And basically in the C-suite, you are starting to lead not only mass market brands, but also premium luxury brands.

Shekhar - 00:14:06:

Correct.

Jon - 00:14:07:

How did you? Think about that because they're very different products, very different consumers. Yes, we understand luxury and premium in the abstract, but when you're leading something like this and responsible for it on the P&L, that's a whole another thing. How did you conceptualize the dichotomy?

Shekhar - 00:14:27:

Very, very good question. You know, first thing I'll tell you is that. My philosophy was as an innovation leader, as I was getting more and more responsibilities and doing more and more new brand developments and leading brand innovations across the globe, my charter to all my brand teams, each of the brand teams was, hey, we need something absolutely breakthrough every three or four years. We can have small incremental things in brands because they need for the news. Marketing needs of news, but something that is game-changing. Platform every three to four years. If we can do it, at least have what is called a lighthouse created of those, at least two or three of those in a 10-year period, you're golden because you're... You know, you're going for the big, big home run while you're doing some small things to keep news going on and branding through innovation, right? So prestige, you talk about the prestige brands, which P&G was in charge of creating all the perfumery. You know, we had licensed it. One of the most successful. How did we do that? And I go back to what is breakthrough consumer product experience in my mind. Okay. It is about the experience. Number one, the overall experience from the time you look at it, the package, to the time, for instance, for a perfume and you spray it and you smell it in the store. It is an emotional bonding, if you can create that, through either the perfumery or emotional bonding by creating amazing skin through rich Olay. Or getting rid of a terrible pain menstrual cramp once a month, you know, which is terrible for lots of women, you know, with the leave. You know, that kind of emotional bonding to the brand because it's innovation driven. And then noticeable effect. Noticeability of the efficacy of the effect is so important because that's what really creates what I call in the consumer's mind, bonding that leads to repeat purchase. In the perfume industry, if you look at it, when I inherited that. When I looked at my philosophy of how do I create a breakthrough? With that kind of thinking, noticeability. Because perfume is all about, you know, impulse purchase. I like the smell right now. The lady at Nordstrom just sprayed it. Rub it. It goes with my skin. I love it. Maybe my partner or fiance likes it, or my wife likes it, and then, hint once. But you have to realize one thing. All the expensive perfumes you buy, within 20 minutes, the top note of the perfume which you smelled is gone. Because a perfume is created with maybe 50 different natural molecules or synthesized molecules. The top note is the one, and it's like a pyramid. You have top notes of 10, 15 molecules that smell, then there are bottom notes, and then there's the absolute bottom note. So the perfume goes from the top note that evaporates from your skin. To the next middle notes, next set of notes, right? So in 20 minutes, it's gone. So when I had the vision that what could be a big idea, and we talked to the consumer about their experience, one thing that was very clear is that the Gucci's of the world, the Dolce & Gabbana's of the world, okay? People are buying a $200 perfume. Within 15, 20 minutes, the top note is gone. Then you're smelling something different. Then you're smelling even worse. The bass notes, the musk. You're smelling the musky, musky woodie notes. Which is not the perfume we bought. $200, right? The technology we could bring again, you know, within P&G, we made a lot of connections from different parts of P&G and from the outside world. You know, and that's one thing. The world is the oyster for innovation ideas. You've got to just go in and tap into that, right? In this case, P&G had a technology called cyclodextrin that is like a molecule that traps perfume. And releases it slowly. As you get wet and sweat. So what we did was we started to use this technology to extend the top node release profile of the top nodes that you smacked. From 20 minutes to more than one and a half, two hours. So you created a long-lasting sensation and experience. Talking about experience and noticeable difference between perfumes we had. You know, as part of our franchise, versus the others. That did not have this idea of technology. So, it was, I mean, even during COVID times, I heard before P&G got away from the business, you know, P&G always... Cuts brands, sells brands, buys brands, and rejuvenates with innovation. Does that, builds the value, sells it to somebody else. Depending on the overall strategy of the company and its categories. Before we got rid of it, I spoke to the CEO and the president. The fact is that nobody in the industry could do that. And, uh, even during the worst of times, 2009, when the whole market had tanked, people were losing jobs, the recession. People were still buying our perfumes. And it was growing at... Almost double digit. Because the perfumes, you know, first of all, the category is such that the upper echelon still buys luxury goods. But our perfumes are doing extremely well in the market. The Dolce & Gabbana's and Gucci's are over. The noticeability of these perfumes and the emotional tie that the consumer had. She or he were not willing to give up that. But the technology went in to drive that differentiation. In this branch. That is what a contribution of the innovation team was in this category.

Jon - 00:21:33:

That's so cool. That honestly, it's so cool because it reminds me of a couple of things and The first component is the innovation that you're describing. And it reminds me of Hermes. And like Hermes bags have the saddle stitch. Yes. That's like, it feels analog and, you know, maybe not so modern, but it is tech. It's a technological.

Shekhar - 00:21:55:

Yes, it is.

Jon - 00:21:57:

You can't see it. And it's incredibly like it is meant to last a lifetime. And, you know, it's very rare when a saddle stitch breaks. But that's an innovation on another good.

Shekhar - 00:22:10:

None of itself. Yes.

Jon - 00:22:12:

That's an innovation. And it doesn't have to be like, the reason why I bring up this example is because we're talking about like chemical structures and like extended release, but it could also be like a stitch on a bag.

Shekhar - 00:22:25:

Absolutely. It can be a packaging. It's a packaging innovation. In the luxury goods world, though, packaging and the side, the crystal, the glass, you know, the little thing that sticks, the jewel that sticks there in Dolce & Gabbana or Gucci. Very important. Because it's the total experience, noticeability driven through technology, total experience driven through design, all that was important in this category. And, you know, as a Global Leadership Council member, I had to have responsibilities across the company, some responsibilities, and I had perfume capability and novel new materials, sustainability capability for the entire company at that time, in addition to my category business innovation role for perfumes and others, the brands. And, you know, one of the things that my corporate team, that was a corporate team across, right? So I had the perfume capability and we produced some of the world's best perfume based experiential products. If you look at, downy and those little crystals that go into your wash that keep the perfume there for long lasting, for long length of time. The perfume that enhances your experience from your laundry, all of those things at that time, the corporate team were thinking about how to extend it, not keep it. The experience is only for the world's most expensive products. Like fine fragrances, you know, which was my direct responsibility. But how to apply some of this perfuming knowledge. I had some very capable people like Steve Hicks and others who were really fantastic. They were called vice presidents these days, but at that time they were directors, global directors by title. P&G has changed its title since it has categories. And he was one of those with his top perfumers within the organization, driving application across different brands, even brands that were not as expensive as fine traders. I had one of the top organization leaders, Mr. Sumit Bhasin, who operated out of England labs and his people in Angon, UK. They were like, I mean, absolute breakthrough thinkers in this world. How do I apply? But you know what? P&G allowed me to have that responsibility as part of my expanded responsibilities to have that corporate touch across many, many brands. And that's the beauty of P&G that we have, which is that, you know, we took learning from one area, applied it. I mean, white strips, you take a look at white strips, the packaging technology, it was a packaging technology with bubbles. We use that to put bubbles on the white strips and fill it with peroxide to put it on teeth. It was a packaging technology.

Jon - 00:25:39:

Oh, no way.

Shekhar - 00:25:41:

Yes. And that has been used, by the way, on these bags that Glad comes up with, these bags that smell perfume. Those are actually bubbles that have perfume in them. So when you take the garbage bags and open them up, that's how we get the smell.

Jon - 00:26:00:

That's so crazy.

Shekhar - 00:26:01:

P&G technology that was discovered in the packaging section of the company. I leveraged it with my top scientist, Paul Segal, at that time, you know, and it's still there in the company. The team put peroxide in a slow release to make white strips. White strips that went into bags, you know, garbage bags for perfuming, you know, packaging discovery.

Jon - 00:26:29:

That's so cool because you can find inspiration from anywhere.

Shekhar - 00:26:34:

Yes.

Jon - 00:26:35:

Like, and as long as you're open to it, I'm actually reading the Rick, Rick Rubin's book on creativity and he talks about it just being open to the universe and taking a look. And if you, if you take a look and you like what you see, keep it. If you don't like what you see, let it go.

Shekhar - 00:26:52:

Let it go. Absolutely.

Jon - 00:26:54:

And then, but you just have to be open. And that, that's kind of like the hard part. And. Something else that really stood out to me as you were describing the premium and luxury brands is the emotional element of it.

Shekhar - 00:27:06:

Yes, very much so.

Jon - 00:27:07:

I think that is something, you know, we're trying to think about is the, and the longer I do it, you know, working at Excedr. Is a lot of purchases are emotional purchases. Almost all of them are emotional purchases and The question is, how do you create that emotional connection with a given brand? I can't pretend to have the answers here. And I think P&G has some magic there, but... I guess, what are your thoughts on creating that emotional bond for a brand or product?

Shekhar - 00:27:45:

And it's deep rooted. You know, the emotional drivers can come from many different directions. One is really there is some physiological effects that go on when you smell something and you smell something for longer length of time, the brain has an effect. And that has now been well studied with magnetic resonance, fMRI, and all of that. Then there are the emotional aspects of a, let's say, pet product. Right? And I worked on a very, very small, I was part of a board called the Orabrush Board that had this tongue cleaner brush that was, that had little.

Jon - 00:28:26:

I use it.

Shekhar - 00:28:27:

You use it, right?

Jon - 00:28:28:

I use it. It's amazing.

Shekhar - 00:28:30:

It's amazing, right? So I was on that board and I'll tell you, it has the little bristles that go into the deep roofs of the tongue and take away the bacteria in the food. That's how it works well. That's how it makes a big difference. What did we do? We said, you know, I was on the board and like all other venture boards, I like to sync my connectivity to it. And, you know, and I'm not suggesting it was my idea, but at least, you know, I could bring some elements of need to that category to design this pet brush. That It's called Aura Probe. I don't think it has really made it big. It tells you that for brands to succeed, also you need awareness building. It takes a lot of money. But those who use the Aura brush is the same thing that you're using, but it's a brush that has a bigger base of bristles, and you put a little bit of an attractive smelling gel or whatever on that brush, and your dog comes running. And licks it. Guess what? It's the same effect as brushing your teeth or your tongue. Because the dog is licking that brush. And this brush is the same design as the human brush that you are using, right? And so, what we found were, why consumers, once they knew about it, they wanted to buy this and to really hold on to it? Is because of the bonding. They were seeing this little puppy come running, it's the cutest thing if I could show you that video, you know, that was on YouTube at one time. And you see this puppy come running and you see the pet owner just absolutely dazzled by this. This is what I call very simple innovation that's beneficial to the dog's tongue because they smell rotten because of the bacteria on their tongue. But the real effect is that this product was bringing joy to the pet owner. Right? Very simple innovation. Came through connection from the human brush, you know, tongue brush, and now we join together. So there is a different ways in which emotion, emotion can be driven by, you know, pharmacologically active things. Like perfumes. It can be driven through actual interaction. With your daughter or your son or your child or your pet. Right? And I admit I haven't worked in the, you know, the huge category that P&G, highly successful category called diapers. But I've used diapers on my children. Right. My wife and I have used diapers on our children. And the fact that when the diaper at night really does super absorbency, doesn't cause irritation to the baby's skin. What a relief that is. I can sleep through the night. That's an emotional bonding to P&G's diapers, you know?

Jon - 00:31:45:

Absolutely.

Shekhar - 00:31:46:

Right? But I don't want to mention names of any brands or anything because I don't know that category well. But I'm sure that's what's very successful for P&G. Right?

Jon - 00:31:57:

Absolutely.

Shekhar - 00:31:57:

The NG diapers have been successful. They not only invented the concept of diapers, but the concept of keeping the baby really, really feeling good when something grows on their skin. Is making them feel good. And therefore, the bonding of the parents and they can sleep through the night, knowing full well that the baby has a leak. He or she is not going to feel uncomfortable. Huge emotional. That's the kind of thing I think about it.

Jon - 00:32:27:

I love hearing these things because it's almost like a behavioral thing.

Shekhar - 00:32:31:

Yes.

Jon - 00:32:32:

It's behavioral. And I think there's a lot of, for anyone who's thinking about launching a new brand product, is to really think. Really just get down to it about these kind of like emotional bonding moments, behavior that your product might influence and kind of induce behavior. Because that's how, you know, it's great to have a fantastic product that's like. Very effective, but it's another thing to have it be a very effective and make you feel a sense of joy.

Shekhar - 00:33:03:

Elevated, yes.

Jon - 00:33:03:

It's elevated. Because I think that's how you want to really, there's a ton of products out there. There's a ton of products. And how do you stand above the rest is like a critically important question. Any entrepreneur should ask them in whatever vertical that you're in.

Outro - 00:33:21:

That's all for this episode of The Biotech Startups Podcast. We hope you enjoyed our discussion with Shekhar Mitra. Tune in for part four of our conversation to learn more about his journey. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, leave us a review and share it with your friends. Thanks for listening. And we look forward to having you join us again on The Biotech Startups Podcast for part four of Shekhar's Story. The Biotech Startups Podcast is produced by Excedr. Don't want to miss an episode? Search for The Biotech Startups Podcast wherever you get your podcasts and click subscribe. Excedr provides research labs with equipment leases on founder-friendly terms to support paths to exceptional outcomes. To learn more, visit our website, www.excedr.com. On behalf of the team here at Excedr, thanks for listening. The Biotech Startups Podcast provides general insights into the life science sector through the experiences of its guests. The use of information on this podcast or materials linked from the podcast is at the user's own risk. The views expressed by the participants are their own and are not the views of Excedr or sponsors. No reference to any product, service or company in the podcast is an endorsement by Excedr or its guests.

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